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Theology 201 Guidelines
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.
Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Could Jesus Christ have saved us if He had only been human?
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BU, I urge you to open your eyes and confront the evidence we are presenting. You obviously recognize that we have a point here, which is why you keep avoiding our points and trying to talk around what we present by presenting what you think is a counter verse. You know all of the bible is true, not just one verse that you happen to choose at random that matches your own view. It all has to reconcile. You can't counter a verse that says Jesus is God by posting a verse that says he is a man. They both have to be true. You have to reconcile both and not ignore them.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBU, I urge you to open your eyes and confront the evidence we are presenting. You obviously recognize that we have a point here, which is why you keep avoiding our points and trying to talk around what we present by presenting what you think is a counter verse. You know all of the bible is true, not just one verse that you happen to choose at random that matches your own view. It all has to reconcile. You can't counter a verse that says Jesus is God by posting a verse that says he is a man. They both have to be true. You have to reconcile both and not ignore them.
We have things in common.
Jesus is a divine being (a deity) just not an Almighty one.
BU
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View PostJesus is just as you say, god and man, one in heaven and one on earth.
We have things in common.
Jesus is a divine being (a deity) just not an Almighty one.
BU
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Good point Sparko
Isaiah 43:10, Jehovah said: “Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.”
[B] The point is that Jehovah had no predecessor, that no god existed before him[/B], for he is eternal. There will be no god with the same likeness after Jehovah because he will always exist and will have no successors as the Supreme Sovereign. Yet, Jehovah did produce others that he himself called gods, as an example the Scriptures show by saying concerning certain humans: “I myself have said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. Surely you will die just as men do; and like any one of the princes you will fall!’” (Psalm 82:6,*7) Similarly, the Word was a god created by Jehovah, but that did not make Jesus equal to Almighty God at any time.
The woed "god" can also be used in a generic sence for a divine being like an angel. It was quite possible in Jewish and Christian monotheism to speak of divine beings that existed alongside and under God but were not identical with him. Phil 2:6-10:-
Philippians 2:6
who, although he was existing in God’s form, . . .
At Psalm 8:5, for example, we read: “You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones.” (Hebrew,*’elohimʹ; “a god,” New English Bible, Jerusalem Bible) The Greek Septuagint Version renders ’elo·himʹ here as “angels.” The Jewish translators of this version saw no conflict with monotheism in applying the term for God to created spirit persons.
As a few examples.
Hope this helps.
BU
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Originally posted by Bibleuser View PostGood point Sparko
Isaiah 43:10, Jehovah said: “Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.”
[B] The point is that Jehovah had no predecessor, that no god existed before him[/B], for he is eternal. There will be no god with the same likeness after Jehovah because he will always exist and will have no successors as the Supreme Sovereign. Yet, Jehovah did produce others that he himself called gods, as an example the Scriptures show by saying concerning certain humans: “I myself have said, ‘You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High. Surely you will die just as men do; and like any one of the princes you will fall!’” (Psalm 82:6,*7) Similarly, the Word was a god created by Jehovah, but that did not make Jesus equal to Almighty God at any time.
Philippians 2:6
who, although he was existing in God’s form, . . .
At Psalm 8:5, for example, we read: “You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones.” (Hebrew,*’elohimʹ; “a god,” New English Bible, Jerusalem Bible) The Greek Septuagint Version renders ’elo·himʹ here as “angels.” The Jewish translators of this version saw no conflict with monotheism in applying the term for God to created spirit persons.
As a few examples.
Hope this helps.
BU
elohim can mean angel or judge in hebrew depending on the context, but the context in the Old Testament and New is that there is only ONE True God, Jehovah YHWH and no other. NONE. All other gods are false gods. And the NT never used "elohim" since it is written in greek. And it says in many placed directly that Jesus is GOD. not "A" God. Therefore Jesus is either the same God as Jehovah, or he is a false God and you should not follow him.
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Also Jehovah says he will not share his glory with anyone else:
Is. 42:8 I am the Lord: that is my name: and my GLORY will I NOT GIVE ANOTHER
Yet Jesus shares his glory:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
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