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New Zealand 2017 Election

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  • New Zealand 2017 Election

    Since we have a handful of kiwis in this forum it might be worth a thread to discuss the New Zealand general election happening next week (advanced voting is already open, and I have already voted).

    For the non-kiwis here I will introduce the contenders. NZ uses a proportional system where people vote for a party and each party's percentage vote share is translated into seats in the 120 seat parliament. Typically about 7 parties get seats and typically a government is formed from a coalition of one of the two major parties together in coalition with one of the two medium-sized parties or a couple of the tiny minor parties.


    Major parties (typical vote share ~40% each):

    National:
    A right-wing party of big-business and farmers. Loves tax cuts, and cutting benefits to poor people, and talking about the economy. Historically a socially conservative party, now split roughly 50/50 between more liberal-leaning atheists (e.g. their previous leader) and more socially conservative Christians (e.g. their current leader). Their previous leader who lead them to great success and won elections for them for 9 years, was wildly popular because of his nice smile, charismatic appearance, and the popular belief that he would be a great guy to have a beer with. After his sudden and unexplained resignation in December last year, the leadership fell to a boring guy who seems a bit uncomfortable in his own skin and who previously in 2002 led the party to its worst ever election result (21%).

    Leader Bill English:


    Labour:
    A center / center-left party historically of unions and working people. Loves spending on government programs. In the 80s it abandoned its historical roots and swung far to the right (past National) in an all-out paroxysm of deregulation and embrace of neoliberalism. It has gradually drifted back towards the left. From 2000-2008 it governed as a moderate and fiscally responsible party generating large surpluses and putting the country in a very good financial position, but doing very little else that could be called 'left-wing'. From 2008 to 2016, it has had leadership issues and gone through 5 leaders, replacing its leader as recently as last month. However the latest leader is wildly popular, and she is a 37 year-old progressive who is polling extremely well, and seems to be taking the party further left back towards its positions of the 1970s and she has explicitly stated her rejection of the neoliberalism of the 80s-2000s. Jeremy Corbyn of UK fame has endorsed her.

    Leader Jacinda Ardern:




    Medium-sized parties (typical vote share ~10% each):

    New Zealand First:
    A populist party in the style of the "Make America Great Again" campaign of Trump. Anti-immigration, a tad of racism, anti-trade agreements, economic protectionism, coupled with a desire for improved healthcare, improved superannuation etc. This party often espouses conservative moral positions (e.g. was the only party to vote 100% against same sex marriage) while combining them with left-wing economic positions (e.g. wanting to spend more on government programs). This is the party that racist grandmas everywhere love. Its leader is a bit of a roguish scoundrel who revels in finding government scandals he can harp on about, while occasionally being involved in some sort of corruption scandal himself. His political reputation was permanently tarred when he campaigned one election against National and then promptly went into a coalition with them immediately after the election, leading many people to see him as a selfish person who is more interested in himself and power for himself than he is in his policies.

    Leader Winston Peters:


    Green:
    A progressive party concerned about the environment, social justice, and economic inequality. Largely identical to Green parties in the US and UK. The Greens were polling at their highest ever amount (15%) until a couple of months ago when a scandal hit one of their leaders and she resigned (the Greens always have two leaders, a male and a female), leaving them with only 1 leader this election. He is well-liked however and combines a business background with good speaking skills.

    Leader James Shaw:



    Here is how PoliticalCompass.org plots the parties:


    Polling: Polls have been a bit varied, a poll from today has National 40, Labour 40, Greens 9, NZ First 6. If I were a betting man, I would place my money on the next government being a Labour + Greens + possibly a minor party, but it could well be National + NZ First + possibly a minor party.

    I'm personally excited because if we get at Labour + Green government, it will be the first time the Greens have ever been in government (I typically vote Green and did this election), and Labour is currently the most left-leaning and progressive that it has been since the 70s, so NZ would then have the most left/progressive government of my lifetime. I assume also that we would also have the youngest leader in NZ history.
    Last edited by Starlight; 09-15-2017, 05:01 PM.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

  • #2
    Who cares?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by seer View Post
      Who cares?
      If the thread topic doesn't interest you, you don't have to click on it. I don't read most of the threads on this site. I anticipated that this thread would mostly be posted in by the half-dozen kiwis on this site and possibly also some of the Australians.

      But I suggest as an American it is worth you studying superior countries to see how they do their politics. e.g. NZ is ranked the least corrupt country in the world, while the US is 18th, and the 4th most democratic country in the world while the US is 21st. So maybe you could learn something if you cared to?
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        If the thread topic doesn't interest you, you don't have to click on it. I don't read most of the threads on this site. I anticipated that this thread would mostly be posted in by the half-dozen kiwis on this site and possibly also some of the Australians.

        But I suggest as an American it is worth you studying superior countries to see how they do their politics. e.g. NZ is ranked the least corrupt country in the world, while the US is 18th, and the 4th most democratic country in the world while the US is 21st. So maybe you could learn something if you cared to?
        It sounds like you are ever so proud of your country. Here let me help you out...

        th.jpg
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          Who cares?
          Perhaps the several people who live in New Zealand who visit this forum, or someone who's interested in the politics/election of another country?

          I don't really see what the problem is.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            I don't really see what the problem is.
            I upset him in another thread by criticizing America / patriotism, and this is his childish tantrum.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seer View Post
              It sounds like you are ever so proud of your country. Here let me help you out...

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]24076[/ATTACH]
              We actually had a referendum to try to change the flag recently, because our current flag often gets confused with the Australian flag:


              I voted in the referendum to change our flag to this one:



              Unfortunately retaining the current flag won the majority vote. ~sigh~


              P.S. I guess I should add for the US audience though that flag waving / saluting / obsession / whatever is pretty uncommon here compared to the US. I've never waved or saluted or pledged any kind of allegiance to a NZ flag in my entire life, and I guess I happen to see one on average about once every three months or so.
              Last edited by Starlight; 09-15-2017, 05:39 PM.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                Perhaps the several people who live in New Zealand who visit this forum, or someone who's interested in the politics/election of another country?

                I don't really see what the problem is.
                It isn't, I just needed to tweak Star...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post

                  Unfortunately retaining the current flag won the majority vote. ~sigh~
                  What is that - a fern?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    What is that - a fern?
                    Yes. Ferns are a fairly common feature of NZ bush / forests, e.g. here is google images first pic under "NZ bush":



                    And one of the NZ sports teams is called the "Silver Ferns" named after the fact that one species of fern plants has a silver colored underside:



                    So the silver fern symbol is commonly used as a symbol of NZ, like the Kiwi symbol (a very rare endangered native flightless nocturnal bird that I have never seen in the wild):
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      If the thread topic doesn't interest you, you don't have to click on it. I don't read most of the threads on this site. I anticipated that this thread would mostly be posted in by the half-dozen kiwis on this site and possibly also some of the Australians.

                      But I suggest as an American it is worth you studying superior countries to see how they do their politics. e.g. NZ is ranked the least corrupt country in the world, while the US is 18th, and the 4th most democratic country in the world while the US is 21st. So maybe you could learn something if you cared to?
                      So now you have the statistical reasons why we didn't want the corrupt politicians to stay in power.

                      And if the numbers are correct, either Kiwis have less to worry about when giving government more power or they are not very sharp against providing the growth of government and corruption.

                      I certainly hope for the freedom and success of people in NZ.

                      Also if it happens to be accurate that 'conservative' candidates in NZ are corrupt or misbehaved, it would probably be good not to vote for them, notwithstanding the general slide into the abyss when voting for progressives.
                      Last edited by mikewhitney; 09-15-2017, 06:07 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by seer View Post
                        It isn't, I just needed to tweak Star...
                        Starlight does say quite a few nutty things, but I don't see any point in "tweaking" him when he makes what seems to be an entirely reasonable topic.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          We actually had a referendum to try to change the flag recently, because our current flag often gets confused with the Australian flag:


                          I voted in the referendum to change our flag to this one:



                          Unfortunately retaining the current flag won the majority vote. ~sigh~


                          P.S. I guess I should add for the US audience though that flag waving / saluting / obsession / whatever is pretty uncommon here compared to the US. I've never waved or saluted or pledged any kind of allegiance to a NZ flag in my entire life, and I guess I happen to see one on average about once every three months or so.
                          That would be a flag.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'll say this: one of your candidates is a babe.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              I'll say this: one of your candidates is a babe.
                              Well we've got to out-hot Canada and France with our new leader obviously.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment

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