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Thread: The Psychological Impact of Complementarian/Patriarchal Theology

  1. #11
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    The psychological impact of egalitarianism is that people stop breeding and eventually get overrun and destroyed by virile patriarchal societies.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  2. #12
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildflower View Post
    So no woman could hear a call to leadership? And if they do they are not hearing from God? So Deborah....
    I haven't said anything of the sort. Let me know when you're interested in discussing what I"m saying, not what you're imagining I"m saying.
    Would you have so easily judged a man if he heard a call to leadership? No, you would have encouraged him to get the education and work for it. But, because I am a woman, you have automatically dismissed me and called me prideful. In a man its called "obeying your call" for a woman its called, "pride". Yeah, I've heard it before, its nothing new.
    I'm not discussing your issues with leadership, I'm discussing your issue of pride.
    I resisted your accusation because you essentially accused me of pride because I am a woman who hears a call and is sad that she is not accepted by fellow Christians and cannot fulfill her call even though there are several examples in Scripture of women leaders. You were wrong to do so, so I spoke up. Or, do you think all women should just remain silent when they are accused of pride because they are not accepted by the predominantly patriarchal church to fulfill their call in Christ?
    As it happens, my accusation of pride has nothing whatsoever to do with you wanting to lead, and everything to do with how you're expressing that desire.
    Your observations are abusive to someone you don't even know, prejudiced based on your complementarian (sexist) theology. This is very wrong.
    If my observations are abusive, it's because you're too full of pride to accept correction. If a guy used the same language you're doing here, on whatever topic, I'd accuse him of pride as well. Stop imagining this has anything to do with your sex.
    You have so much to learn but, as a woman, I'm obviously not the one to teach you.
    I have learned much from women. Again, your problem is not patriarchy. It's pride.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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  3. #13
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    the bizarre part about this thread is that I already posted stats in the other one showing women's happiness has declined the more egalitarian society has gotten. I suspect a big part of why so many women today are miserable and psychologically damaged is because their instincts pull in one direction and the culture itself pulls in another. But adhering to social norms is a much stronger impulse for women than men (who can survive a lot easier as rogues), so they end up being pulled in two contradictory directions as a result. At no time in history have women been more free to do whatever they want and yet women like Wildflower still find something to complain about, and lo and behold, it's the supposed severe restrictions on her freedom she is experiencing that is causing her angst.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  4. #14
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    wildflower, as in your other threads you seem to be looking for things to be angry about and be a victim. No matter what anyone says, you take it as a personal attack and somehow about you being a woman. One Bad Pig said your problem is pride, yet you took it as an attack on you as a woman. You really need to step back and stop seeing everything as about your gender and as an attack. Pay attention to what people are actually saying instead of trying to find some hidden agenda behind their words.

    Just because we are men doesn't make us the enemy or women haters. Nor do we think women cannot be leaders. If you were here before, you know theologyweb was owned and run by Dee Dee Warren, a woman. None of us had a problem with that and now that she has turned it over to us, one of the owners is still a woman, mossrose, and she has an equal standing with the other owners like me. I have a several female bosses at work. Not a problem.

    stop living life with a chip on your shoulder. Even if you have been victimized, continuing to see yourself as a victim just makes you feel inferior and angry. Jesus was a victim but he lived his live free of hate and shared love for others instead.
    Last edited by Sparko; 09-17-2017 at 06:00 AM.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Theologically, I think the 'women as inferior' is an unsustainable position - it simply is not supported by Scripture taken comprehensively.

    Complimentarianism is NOT patriarchy - it could work just as well from a matriarchal POV. It is a response to legitimate objections to the theological problems with how women have been treated historically. It's not necessarily the best response - it has issues - but to call it patriarchal is unfair and misguided.

    I disagree with OBP - I don't think your problem is pride - it's obsession. Pride may play a role or it could be other factors - I don't know you well enough to tell. I do know you aren't here to debate - you're here to preach. Sparky is correct, you aren't willing to listen to anything that disagrees with your premises. That's sad - you're making some silly mistakes because you are so obsessed with a system that has been on life support for twenty years.

    I suspect hatred is an issue with you - anger certainly is - because you are picking rather senseless fights. The guys here don't hate you because you're a girl - they are getting annoyed because you trash them constantly. I'm getting annoyed because it's a one note song - and I actually agree with the central premise! Mind you, I think you argue it atrociously - truth matters much more than how I feel about it - but I don't see Scripture supporting a true patriarchy so on that point I agree.

    As for the thread premise, who cares? It sounds like another self serving study done to beat a dead horse. IF - which I doubt - God truly wishes that we obey men, then that's exactly what we should do regardless of the psychological impact. The important question isn't how does it impact us - it's IS THIS TRUE.

    Neither male nor female... All the same in Christ Jesus - nope, doesn't appear to be true. So, that being the case, the problem isn't theology - it's erroneous theology. If that's the case, you're making the problem worse by arguing from psychology and feelings rather than theology and Scripture.

  6. #16
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Theologically, I think the 'women as inferior' is an unsustainable position - it simply is not supported by Scripture taken comprehensively.

    Complimentarianism is NOT patriarchy - it could work just as well from a matriarchal POV. It is a response to legitimate objections to the theological problems with how women have been treated historically. It's not necessarily the best response - it has issues - but to call it patriarchal is unfair and misguided.

    I disagree with OBP - I don't think your problem is pride - it's obsession. Pride may play a role or it could be other factors - I don't know you well enough to tell. I do know you aren't here to debate - you're here to preach. Sparky is correct, you aren't willing to listen to anything that disagrees with your premises. That's sad - you're making some silly mistakes because you are so obsessed with a system that has been on life support for twenty years.

    I suspect hatred is an issue with you - anger certainly is - because you are picking rather senseless fights. The guys here don't hate you because you're a girl - they are getting annoyed because you trash them constantly. I'm getting annoyed because it's a one note song - and I actually agree with the central premise! Mind you, I think you argue it atrociously - truth matters much more than how I feel about it - but I don't see Scripture supporting a true patriarchy so on that point I agree.

    As for the thread premise, who cares? It sounds like another self serving study done to beat a dead horse. IF - which I doubt - God truly wishes that we obey men, then that's exactly what we should do regardless of the psychological impact. The important question isn't how does it impact us - it's IS THIS TRUE.

    Neither male nor female... All the same in Christ Jesus - nope, doesn't appear to be true. So, that being the case, the problem isn't theology - it's erroneous theology. If that's the case, you're making the problem worse by arguing from psychology and feelings rather than theology and Scripture.
    To make a note here: I have no problem with women in ministry. I don't think the bible is clearly against it. It mentions that a pastor needs to be the husband of one wife, but that seems to be just an assumption that the pastor will be a man and the command is against him having more than one wife. It isn't a clear command that women should not be pastors.

    One of the best sermons I ever heard and still remember to this day was given at the theologyweb convention by Teallaura! If she were a pastor in my town I would go to her church!

    To me the only restriction is in marriage: the husband is to be the head of the family. But he is never to treat his wife as a second-class citizen, but as his "vice-president" so to speak. And he is to serve her like Jesus served the church. Cherish and love and protect. Not boss her around like a slave.

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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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  8. Amen LostSheep amen'd this post.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    I still have the bulletin from that service.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

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  10. Amen Sparko amen'd this post.
  11. #19
    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    IF - which I doubt - God truly wishes that we obey men, then that's exactly what we should do regardless of the psychological impact. The important question isn't how does it impact us - it's IS THIS TRUE.

    Neither male nor female... All the same in Christ Jesus - nope, doesn't appear to be true. So, that being the case, the problem isn't theology - it's erroneous theology. If that's the case, you're making the problem worse by arguing from psychology and feelings rather than theology and Scripture.

    Preach it, sister! Amen!
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

  12. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  13. #20
    tWebber MsJack's Avatar
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    Wildflower -- Welcome to the forums.

    My comment isn't going to be about you. The problem here isn't you and it's gaslighting to suggest otherwise. You aren't the one teaching through words and actions that half of the human race exists to serve and be subordinate to the other. Of course that's harmful.

    My comment is going to be about this.

    And yet...I cannot leave the relationships, the people who look up to me (and my family) in my church. To leave would cause more damage.
    You're wrong. Yes, you CAN leave.

    You may not want to leave. You may not want to have to explain to your family why you can no longer remain in a church that has shackled half of Christ's body. You may not want to say that you're done subjecting yourself to an unbiblical theology of female subordination.

    But you can leave. You can leave any day you want. You can leave this Sunday morning if you want.

    And if going to a church with a biblical theology of women in ministry causes division in your family, well, Jesus had a few things to say about that (Luke 12:51-53).

    I'm so sorry for your pain. Feel free to private message me if you want to talk.
    "It seems to me that these women were the head (κεφάλαιον) of the church which was at Philippi." ~ John Chrysostom, Homilies on Philippians 13

    Weighted Glory | Christians for Biblical Equality | Worlds Without End: A Mormon Studies Roundtable

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