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Thread: Future ministry opportunities for disgraced televangelists?

  1. #11
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Paul persecuted Christians out of conviction, before he became one. Once he converted he didn't act in a grossly amoral way or otherwise embarrass the church.

    Peter denied Christ, under threat to his life. I've never met a televangelist who had to maintain sexual relations with prostitutes or snort coke under threat of life and/or well being.
    I grant that when we are discussing questionable ministries, that becomes the issue - it might even be the real issue here. But that's not what KG asked - he effectively asked should we ever truly forgive theses guys? The answer is yes, we should, and IF they continue in true ministry, there's no issue with it. The church is greater for its forgiveness than for making sure its public image is squeaky clean.

    Now, the real problem is discerning legitimate from illegitimate ministries.

  2. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    I grant that when we are discussing questionable ministries, that becomes the issue - it might even be the real issue here. But that's not what KG asked - he effectively asked should we ever truly forgive theses guys? The answer is yes, we should, and IF they continue in true ministry, there's no issue with it. The church is greater for its forgiveness than for making sure its public image is squeaky clean.

    Now, the real problem is discerning legitimate from illegitimate ministries.
    I don't think forgiveness implies you act like nothing ever happened. Christian leadership (and leadership in general) isn't a right and it should not be handed out lightly. And some mistakes should make you ineligible, period.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  4. Amen Jedidiah, mossrose amen'd this post.
  5. #13
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    I don't think forgiveness implies you act like nothing ever happened. Christian leadership (and leadership in general) isn't a right and it should not be handed out lightly.
    Agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by DE
    And some mistakes should make you ineligible, period.
    This part is where I disagree. Some mistakes should require greater scrutiny to recover from, I grant - but if denying Jesus and running out on Him at the time of trial wasn't a disqualifier, I don't see where anything should be.

  6. #14
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Agreed
    This part is where I disagree. Some mistakes should require greater scrutiny to recover from, I grant - but if denying Jesus and running out on Him at the time of trial wasn't a disqualifier, I don't see where anything should be.
    The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes to mind as a disqualifier. Admittedly, none of these gentlemen are accused of that.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  7. #15
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes to mind as a disqualifier. Admittedly, none of these gentlemen are accused of that.
    That disqualifies you from something far more important than standing in a pulpit.

  8. #16
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Agreed
    This part is where I disagree. Some mistakes should require greater scrutiny to recover from, I grant - but if denying Jesus and running out on Him at the time of trial wasn't a disqualifier, I don't see where anything should be.
    As I already said, I think there's a massive difference in screwing up because you were scared of dying and screwing up because you were pursuing your own selfish desires. I expect most of us would break under the right circumstances. And those circumstances should matter when making people leaders.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  9. Amen Jedidiah, One Bad Pig, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #17
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Peter, you mean? Peter wasn't even a Christian when that happened because Christianity didn't yet exist.
    And he was not caught up in any sex scandal.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  11. #18
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    I grant that when we are discussing questionable ministries, that becomes the issue - it might even be the real issue here. But that's not what KG asked - he effectively asked should we ever truly forgive theses guys? The answer is yes, we should, and IF they continue in true ministry, there's no issue with it. The church is greater for its forgiveness than for making sure its public image is squeaky clean.
    We should forgive them if they repent, but not trust them with the same sort of ministry they had before.

    Now, the real problem is discerning legitimate from illegitimate ministries.
    I do not think it is all that difficult to discern illegitimate ministries if the "ministry" serves mostly to enrich the "minister."
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  12. #19
    tWebber JB DoulosChristou's Avatar
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    Strictly speaking, I don't think a major moral fall like a sex scandal can permanently disqualify a disgraced minister (televangelist or otherwise) from ministry. But part of repentance in such a case is recognizing the harm done to the public reputation of Christ and his Church by such scandals. And repentance then ought to entail taking care that one's future ministry will not further perpetuate harm to said name. So repentance and restoration, particularly in high-profile cases, probably ought to involve a lengthy process for re-training in virtue and discipline, and also should lead to a less public ministry setting. For that reason, a disgraced televangelist, celebrity preacher, etc., moving suddenly back into high-profile ministry is a cause for concern, and suggests that perhaps the minister has not sufficiently glimpsed the serious ramifications for the church of his scandals.
    "The Jesus Christ who saves sinners is the same Christ who beckons his followers to serious use of their minds for serious explorations of the world." - Mark Noll

    "It cannot be that the people should grow in grace unless they give themselves to reading." - John Wesley

    "Wherever men are still theological, there is still some chance of their being logical." - G. K. Chesterton

  13. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  14. #20
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    You mean like Paul who denied the Lord three times?
    Peter.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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