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Thread: Future ministry opportunities for disgraced televangelists?

  1. #41
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    But that wasn't the question - it's not 'should we let them do the same exact thing again' but 'should they have any such role again'? I don't think there's a one size fits all answer. I think it's best evaluated case by case with a weather eye toward not putting them in temptations way but not throwing out the talents they are supposed to use for the Kingdom, either - when the desire to serve is legitimate.
    Ironically, I was looking into the accusations against Ravi Zacharias regarding the inappropriate text messages with another man's wife. I read the text of the messages and it doesn't look good.

    What would you suggest he / we do regarding him?

    I agree that he has a talent that shouldn't be wasted but I also think that he is tainted in some ways.

  2. #42
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by element771 View Post
    Ironically, I was looking into the accusations against Ravi Zacharias regarding the inappropriate text messages with another man's wife. I read the text of the messages and it doesn't look good.

    What would you suggest he / we do regarding him?

    I agree that he has a talent that shouldn't be wasted but I also think that he is tainted in some ways.
    1) Judge fairly - which is next to impossible on the cherry picked, lousy procedure evidence that one finds in the media and the Internet.
    2) IF (accusations are NOT guilt) there is really an issue, evaluate it - again fairly and again, not in a trial by media.
    3) IF that proves positive, evaluate how it affects the ministry, if at all (if every sin is gonna disqualify, we're going to have to wait for the Second Coming to have leadership).
    4) IF it affects ministry, evaluate the impact.

    THEN:

    Where is the person in their walk? have they repented? Are they even ready for consideration to return? Once they are, have a plan for how that is going to be happening - if at all (again, case by case - in some cases, it may not be wise - or possible).

  3. #43
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    I thought it was a case where a woman sent Zacharias an unsolicited image, out of the blue, and he blocked her. Or is this a different incident altogether?
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  4. #44
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I thought it was a case where a woman sent Zacharias an unsolicited image, out of the blue, and he blocked her. Or is this a different incident altogether?
    http://www.christianitytoday.com/new...-bio-rzim.html

    If she started escalating with more sexually suggestive messages/pictures and he didn't cut her off on the spot, then I suspect there's more to it than just him being preyed upon by two con artists (which I think he was).

    Citing such concerns about “clergy sexual misconduct,” blogger Julie Anne Smith on Friday published emails given to her by Zacharias’s accuser back in February, before the settlement. Smith explained that she was greatly troubled that “a victim’s voice is silenced” while Zacharias was “able to give his narrative” in the lawsuit. “Nothing is preventing this from happening again,” she wrote. “... Unless someone speaks out publicly, this case will be lost in the shuffle.”

    The images included an October 2016 email in which the woman told Zacharias she was going to disclose their “secret and its soul-searing shame” to her husband; in another image showing four short emails, the apologist appears to reply mere hours later by threatening suicide. “If you betray me here, I will have no option but to bid this world goodbye, I promise,” he wrote, according to the image, later calling it “the most dark and accursed day of my life.”
    The con wouldn't have worked if he hadn't taken the bait, to some extent. Which, between these emails and his bizarre settling with nondisclosure agreements and everything else makes him look pretty guilty.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  5. Amen element771 amen'd this post.
  6. #45
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    1) Judge fairly - which is next to impossible on the cherry picked, lousy procedure evidence that one finds in the media and the Internet.
    2) IF (accusations are NOT guilt) there is really an issue, evaluate it - again fairly and again, not in a trial by media.
    3) IF that proves positive, evaluate how it affects the ministry, if at all (if every sin is gonna disqualify, we're going to have to wait for the Second Coming to have leadership).
    4) IF it affects ministry, evaluate the impact.

    THEN:

    Where is the person in their walk? have they repented? Are they even ready for consideration to return? Once they are, have a plan for how that is going to be happening - if at all (again, case by case - in some cases, it may not be wise - or possible).
    He's an apologist, can he argue or not? The rest is dressing IMO. Maybe do it under a pen name if his actual name gets tainted but it's not like he needs to be in intimate contact with anyone to do apologetics. This is also why I'm opposed to apologists starting "ministries", except for Holding most of them end up trying to stretch into clergy duties and bite more than they can chew.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  7. Amen element771 amen'd this post.
  8. #46
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    This is also why I'm opposed to apologists starting "ministries", except for Holding most of them end up trying to stretch into clergy duties and bite more than they can chew.
    I could not agree with this any more.

  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I thought it was a case where a woman sent Zacharias an unsolicited image, out of the blue, and he blocked her. Or is this a different incident altogether?
    Same incident but as DE suggested, it seems a little more than an unsolicited image out of the blue. IF the emails that were released are accurate, it appears that he implied that he would kill himself if she told her husband or revealed their interaction.

    I do believe that these two are con artists but I also believe that he took the bait so to speak. I also agree with DE in that you don't reach a settlement and sign a NDA without having done something wrong.

  10. #48
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by element771 View Post
    Same incident but as DE suggested, it seems a little more than an unsolicited image out of the blue. IF the emails that were released are accurate, it appears that he implied that he would kill himself if she told her husband or revealed their interaction.

    I do believe that these two are con artists but I also believe that he took the bait so to speak. I also agree with DE in that you don't reach a settlement and sign a NDA without having done something wrong.
    Not sure if a nondisclosure agreement in and of itself is a sign of guilt. Some battles cannot be "won", even if it did not happen, the ministry is irreparably harmed. A nondisclosure agreement is an attempt to bury it.

    It is a Catch-22, if it is buried, then people ask why it is being buried. If it is aired publicly, then the ministry is harmed.

  11. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  12. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by simplicio View Post
    Not sure if a nondisclosure agreement in and of itself is a sign of guilt. Some battles cannot be "won", even if it did not happen, the ministry is irreparably harmed. A nondisclosure agreement is an attempt to bury it.

    It is a Catch-22, if it is buried, then people ask why it is being buried. If it is aired publicly, then the ministry is harmed.
    I would disagree.

    If it was just a matter of someone sending an unsolicited nude pic after a harmless email chain, then that can be quickly taken care of. Just turn over everything. The fact that money changed hands and no one can talk about it seems suspicious. After all, the money is typically for the silence...otherwise what is the point of a settlement / NDA.

  13. Amen Darth Executor amen'd this post.

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