Hugh Hefner is now in hell

[One Bad Pig]

People choosing their fate doesn't mean God doesn't send people to hell. IE: a criminal chooses to commit a crime and the judge sentences him to prison.

The analogy is inapt, because we all commit crimes. People go to hell because they reject God.

[Mountain Man]

Trying to keep it simple for Jimmy.

I fear you may have made it too simple to the point of being heretical. I don't think Jimmy is incapable of understanding, I think he's simply unwilling.

[Darth Executor]

The analogy is inapt, because we all commit crimes. People go to hell because they reject God.

No, irrelevant differences doesn't make it inapt. Otherwise there would be no point to analogies since you can always nitpick a difference. The point of the analogy is that just because you choose to do X doesn't mean you are not punished by somebody else.

[JimL]

exactly. Believing in God is how we avoid going to hell. Sinning is the reason we go to hell.

If you were convicted for a crime and thrown in prison, but were told that if you asked the governor, he could get you released, would that governor be the reason you were sent to prison? No, he might be the reason you get out, but the reason you are in prison was because you are a criminal.

Irrelevant. The point was that the great majority of the people in the history of the world had no knowledge of your god so whether or not believing in your god is the way to avoid going to hell would be irrelevant to most people, right. If believing is how one is saved, then not knowing, ergo not believing, dooms one to hell. Or have you come up with an alternate solution for all those billions of people, past, present, and future who never knew and so never believed in your god?

[Darth Executor]

Irrelevant. The point was that the great majority of the people in the history of the world had no knowledge of your god

Not true, most of the world's population was born in the last 100 years and overwhelming majority in last 200.

[One Bad Pig]

No, irrelevant differences doesn't make it inapt. Otherwise there would be no point to analogies since you can always nitpick a difference. The point of the analogy is that just because you choose to do X doesn't mean you are not punished by somebody else.

That is not an "irrelevant difference". I wouldn't bother nitpicking, as I'm fully aware that no analogy is going to be perfect.

[JimL]

Not true, most of the world's population was born in the last 100 years and overwhelming majority in last 200.

And you think that helps your argument?

[Tassman]

Yes, Trump is a sinner. He can also repent of his sin and attain salvation from eternal death. Just like you!

Yes, one can just see Trump repenting. He's never wrong...didn't you know?

But there's no substantive reason to to believe in any form of life beyond death. To the best of our knowledge all living creatures perish, no amount of wish fulfilment can change that.

Yes, men wrote down the words, men copied them. And later translated them and were printed. And so based on that you are contending God didn't give those words to men.

There is no good reason to think so.

[JimL]

So how do you know that God did not communicate to men those things? You're silly based on your own argument. OK, let's just say there is no God and therefore no judgement, there being no God and no kind of second death there being no kind of judgement. That when one is dead there is no consciousness beyond this life. Now when we die, all awareness ends for us. So if my understanding is wrong, when I am dead, I am not going to know I was wrong. You cannot say that if what I understand is true. You have no out.

Yes, I understand, you live your life in fear of god and death. I don't. You could also think of it this way, if there is a god, how likely is it to be the evil god such as the biblical one who would do such evil things to his living creatures such as burning them in hell and all that nonsense. Just be a good person, get rid of your guilt and fear, and enjoy your life, if a good god exists he won't punish you for that.

Your claiming no good reason and having no reason to know you are right - you're being silly by your own standard.

There being no good reason to believe in the first place, is itself reason to believe I'm right.

[Charles]

Trying to keep it simple for Jimmy.

Trying to keep it simple.... And yet according to MM you missed the point. He says: "Mere belief is not enough." So your simplification could send people to hell, I assume? And what if you hadn't been corrected by MM? Would you have gone to hell too? Or is hell only for "those others, you know...."?

[Sparko]

Irrelevant. The point was that the great majority of the people in the history of the world had no knowledge of your god so whether or not believing in your god is the way to avoid going to hell would be irrelevant to most people, right. If believing is how one is saved, then not knowing, ergo not believing, dooms one to hell.

If the majority of prisoners didn't know that they could ask to be released and so spent their entire sentence in prison, that doesn't mean their sentence wasn't deserved or just. They still did the crimes that they were sentenced for.

If people go to hell because of their sins, it is their just punishment for their sins. That any one of them can avoid that just punishment by believing in Jesus doesn't mean that not believing in Jesus put them in hell, their sins did. The way out is open to everyone, and that is why we Christians spend so much time telling others about salvation, so that nobody is left behind saying "well I didn't know"

And JimL, you can't use that excuse, because you do know. So if you would rather spend eternity in hell rather than believe in the Gospel of Jesus, that is YOUR own fault. God doesn't OWE you anything. You don't deserve anything. That is why salvation is a gift, because of God's mercy. It is undeserved.

Or have you come up with an alternate solution for all those billions of people, past, present, and future who never knew and so never believed in your god?

Don't sin.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[JimL]

If the majority of prisoners didn't know that they could ask to be released and so spent their entire sentence in prison, that doesn't mean their sentence wasn't deserved or just. They still did the crimes that they were sentenced for.

If people go to hell because of their sins, it is their just punishment for their sins. That any one of them can avoid that just punishment by believing in Jesus doesn't mean that not believing in Jesus put them in hell, their sins did. The way out is open to everyone, and that is why we Christians spend so much time telling others about salvation, so that nobody is left behind saying "well I didn't know"

And JimL, you can't use that excuse, because you do know. So if you would rather spend eternity in hell rather than believe in the Gospel of Jesus, that is YOUR own fault. God doesn't OWE you anything. You don't deserve anything. That is why salvation is a gift, because of God's mercy. It is undeserved.


Don't sin.

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

Well thats a nonsensical response. So god punishes, sends to hell for all eternity, all those billions who have never heard of him. Thats what you call a just god? You simply, and poorly, defend the indefensible, because you feel that you have to in order to maintain your belief.

[Sparko]

Well thats a nonsensical response. So god punishes, sends to hell for all eternity, all those billions who have never heard of him. Thats what you call a just god? You simply, and poorly, defend the indefensible, because you feel that you have to in order to maintain your belief.

Nobody will be sent to hell because they didn't hear of God. They will be sent to hell for sinning. Just like you.

If Bob were sent to prison for murdering someone, and he were offered a way to get out, would it be the fault of the person offering Bob the way out for you being in prison or because Bob were a murderer? Even if Bob never heard of the way out, does that mean Bob was not in prison because he was a murderer? Whether Bob hears of a way out and doesn't take it, or never even hears of a way out, it is still Bob's own fault for being in prison: he murdered someone.

You are the reason you are going to hell JimL. Because you choose to mock and not "get it" despite it being as easy as you just admitting that you are a sinner and asking Jesus to save you. When you are sitting in hell, just remember who's to blame: you. And then remember all of the people who tried to help you avoid it.

[JimL]

Nobody will be sent to hell because they didn't hear of God. They will be sent to hell for sinning. Just like you.

If Bob were sent to prison for murdering someone, and he were offered a way to get out, would it be the fault of the person offering Bob the way out for you being in prison or because Bob were a murderer? Even if Bob never heard of the way out, does that mean Bob was not in prison because he was a murderer? Whether Bob hears of a way out and doesn't take it, or never even hears of a way out, it is still Bob's own fault for being in prison: he murdered someone.

You are the reason you are going to hell JimL. Because you choose to mock and not "get it" despite it being as easy as you just admitting that you are a sinner and asking Jesus to save you. When you are sitting in hell, just remember who's to blame: you. And then remember all of the people who tried to help you avoid it.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb! You're just repeating the same dumb argument rather than refuting my refutation of same.

[Sparko]

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb! You're just repeating the same dumb argument rather than refuting my refutation of same.

You didn't refute anything Jim, you just repeated yourself.

Normally I would say, I don't care what you do, if you want to ignore the truth and end up in hell, go ahead. But I actually do care. I don't want anyone to end up in hell. So I am trying to explain it to you in simple terms. God gives us a way out of our own deserved punishment. He doesn't owe us a way out but he cares and wants to save you. He is throwing you a rope after you have jumped into the water and are drowning. If you don't take the rope, you can't blame God. If you don't even know about the rope you can't blame God. You are the one who jumped in. You committed the sins. When you stand before God and he judges you, it will be on your own actions. God didn't make you sin. You did that all on your own.

Now I know you actually understand but you merely don't give a crap and just want to mock. So that is on your own head.