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  • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The Parable of the Vineyard doesn't teach that not all will have an opportunity to receive the gospel.
    I know, I specifically bolded the part that is of interest to this topic so that people wouldn't get hung up on the topic of the parable.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      What about those who didn't hear about a job at the vineyard (you know, the actual topic here)?
      The parable isn't meant to address that. Like all analogies, it's not an exact parallel.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • It would be difficult to argue that God has always been egalitarian in the sense suggested in this thread because it was presented first to the Jews (Romans 1:16), though Paul suggests that was not necessarily an advantage because it also presented them the greater opportunity for guilt upon failure to respond.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          The parable isn't meant to address that. Like all analogies, it's not an exact parallel.
          The parable was meant to address discontent among believers. I'd imagine there would be even more discontent to address if the vineyard owner was throwing coins at people who didn't work at all.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            What about those who didn't hear about a job at the vineyard (you know, the actual topic here)?
            What about them? The point is that the parable doesn't say what you claimed it does. Maybe you should use the one about the potter and the pots?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              The parable was meant to address discontent among believers. I'd imagine there would be even more discontent to address if the vineyard owner was throwing coins at people who didn't work at all.
              You can imagine all you'd like, but that still doesn't mean it's relevant to stretch a parable beyond what it's meant to convey. The parable's point is that all who are saved are equally saved, no matter when they are saved. Who is saved and how one is saved are wholly outside the parable's scope.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                Good question. 1st Timothy tells us,

                Scripture Verse: 1 Timothy 2:1

                First of all, then, I urge that requests, prayers, intercessions, and thanks be offered on behalf of all people, 2 even for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 Such prayer for all is good and welcomed before God our Savior, 4 since he wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one intermediary between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, revealing God’s purpose at his appointed time. 7 For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle—I am telling the truth; I am not lying—and a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 So I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or dispute.

                © Copyright Original Source

                I will see your 1 Tim 2, and raise a 1 Tim. 4:10 "That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  God DID offer salvation to everybody. He just didn't place it in everybody's bag.
                  So He placed it in your bag, and mine, because we are - special, smart, handsome, ugly, weird?
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    I will see your 1 Tim 2, and raise a 1 Tim. 4:10 "That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."
                    If you're interpreting 1 Timothy 4:10 in that manner, that would seem to teach universalism, not post mortem salvation.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      If you're interpreting 1 Timothy 4:10 in that manner, that would seem to teach universalism, not post mortem salvation.
                      I do have universal tendencies, but no. Only that God really does want to save all men, is offering salvation to all men. I mean can you imagine Tass in heaven? He would be miserable! Muttering to himself, but it was the multiverse that created everything...
                      Last edited by seer; 10-19-2017, 11:28 AM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        It would be difficult to argue that God has always been egalitarian in the sense suggested in this thread because it was presented first to the Jews (Romans 1:16), though Paul suggests that was not necessarily an advantage because it also presented them the greater opportunity for guilt upon failure to respond.
                        It was presented first to the Jews so that through them all the nations could be saved. The bigger plan was always to make salvation available to all.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          It was presented first to the Jews so that through them all the nations could be saved. The bigger plan was always to make salvation available to all.
                          And how about the millions who lived prior to that, or are you a young earth fundy? Make up some more crap to fit them into your belief. You see, you guys can make up stuff all you want, thats something human beings are good at, adjusting their ideas to fit their beliefs. But not even you people can agree, the bible is full of contradictions which you have to argue over and try to come up with a way to fix it in order to hang on to your precious beliefs, but you never really can, because its obviously nonsense.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            And how about the millions who lived prior to that, or are you a young earth fundy? Make up some more crap to fit them into your belief. You see, you guys can make up stuff all you want, thats something human beings are good at, adjusting their ideas to fit their beliefs. But not even you people can agree, the bible is full of contradictions which you have to argue over and try to come up with a way to fix it in order to hang on to your precious beliefs, but you never really can, because its obviously nonsense.
                            JimL, please tell me which question I didn't answer for you and in which post you asked it.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              And how about the millions who lived prior to that, or are you a young earth fundy? Make up some more crap to fit them into your belief. You see, you guys can make up stuff all you want, thats something human beings are good at, adjusting their ideas to fit their beliefs. But not even you people can agree, the bible is full of contradictions which you have to argue over and try to come up with a way to fix it in order to hang on to your precious beliefs, but you never really can, because its obviously nonsense.
                              Well since I lean towards Craig's view on Molinism, I've already answered this. Romans 1 also goes into the subject concerning people before the Jews. And no, I'm not a young earth creationist. I'm sorry that you're upset that we have answers for our beliefs. I know it must seem much easier to be angry at a worldview that hasn't, but that's simply not the case.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                JimL, please tell me which question I didn't answer for you and in which post you asked it.
                                He's too busy asking Adrift questions which Adrift has already answered.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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