Hugh Hefner is now in hell

[Terraceth]

I'm not sure why you think the credibility of the Christian God's existence rests on whether it offends your sense of morality or not.

I've never understood that either. You see so many people try to argue against Christianity because they think something or other about its deity is immoral, or see people turn away from the religion for that reason ("I don't want to believe that ______"), when literally none of that has anything to do with whether the deity actually exists.

[JimL]

wouldn't believing there's an alternate track for people who never heard of Jesus be even more self serving? It's not like you can get converts to a religion if they don't even know it exists so there's no opportunity cost like with full universalism.

The idea itself, that a god would exist just for, just for those of you who have heard of him is self serving. That there are billions of people who have existed that have never heard of your god, a god who according to your belief, will condemn them to an eternity in hell is a self serving ridiculous idea. There is no reason to believe such self serving nonsense.

[JimL]

wouldn't believing there's an alternate track for people who never heard of Jesus be even more self serving? It's not like you can get converts to a religion if they don't even know it exists so there's no opportunity cost like with full universalism.

No, if your god were a just god as you define him as being, then the opportunity would be the same for all. We know that it isn't the case, therefore its a stupid belief.

[JimL]

I did answer your point. many times now. You just ignore my answer, call it stupid and repeat yourself.



It is about you Jim. You are the one who can't seem to grasp the facts here.

Want to try it slowly?

1. If one person breaks the law by committing a felony the just thing is for them to be judged and put in prison. correct?

2. If a billion people break the law by committing a felony the just thing is for them to be judged and put in prison, correct?

Just as I suspected you'd do, ignore the question you have no answer for. The just thing is that all people of god get the same opportunity to be saved, but if only some people have ever heard of your god, then they don't get that opportunity. Instead they go to hell. Self serving bs.

[JimL]

Been where, done what? What was the lie you discovered? And yes we are going to die (Hebrews 9:27).

I was brought up catholic, the bible is a lie, and you are a material being, when you die you stay dead. Thats the end.

[Tassman]

I haven't even presented my argument, but it does knock the wind out of the sails of yours because it's not true that most people haven't heard of Jesus.

Throughout the entire span of human history dating back to the Stone Age it is probably reasonable to argue that most people haven’t heard of Jesus...let alone our fellow humans such as Neanderthal man.

[Tassman]

Yes, in your view, there not being any God.

There is no credible reason to think that such an entity or entities exist.

"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence; it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines". Bertrand Russell

[37818]

There is no credible reason to think that such an entity or entities exist.

"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence; it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines". Bertrand Russell

Again, from your view. What we call reason and science is contingent upon God. And your view is not allowing you to comprehend that.

Here is a fact for you. You do have an idea of God. The God or gods you do not believe in.

Now my God is the Uncaused Existence. (Whose Name in Hebrew has been understood to mean the self-Existent. Proverbs 21:30. )

The universe even being defined as everything - would only be contingent in that Uncaused Existence. Uncaused Existence would be a key part of what makes up the universe - the universe being everything - but it, the universe being everything, would not be God, would only include God.

Now my guess is your idea of God is not the uncaused existence.

[37818]

I was brought up catholic, the bible is a lie, and you are a material being, when you die you stay dead. Thats the end.

Thank you for your reply.

Would you please state just one, without a doubt, lie from the Bible? Give reference, and cite the evidence that what you cite is indisputably a lie.

Yes, I agree we are materially beings. As yet science does not yet understand what consciousness is.

Now the part about dying and staying dead - that materially seems to be the case as of right now.

[Sparko]

The idea itself, that a god would exist just for, just for those of you who have heard of him is self serving. That there are billions of people who have existed that have never heard of your god, a god who according to your belief, will condemn them to an eternity in hell is a self serving ridiculous idea. There is no reason to believe such self serving nonsense.

Well, for arguments sake, assume God is real and the bible is true. since basically that is what you are doing with your objection above.

Humanity started out knowing God. All of humanity. As humanity spread out, they left God, forgot about him. So those that don't know about Him only have their own ancestors to blame for that. And again, nobody is judged on whether they know about God or not. But whether they sin or not.

We have shown you this passage before:

Romans 2: 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

[Sparko]

Just as I suspected you'd do, ignore the question you have no answer for. The just thing is that all people of god get the same opportunity to be saved, but if only some people have ever heard of your god, then they don't get that opportunity. Instead they go to hell. Self serving bs.

Only if they sin, JimL.

[Sparko]

There is no credible reason to think that such an entity or entities exist.

"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence; it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines". Bertrand Russell

The majority of people who have ever lived disagree with you and Bertrand Russel.

[Mountain Man]

No, if your god were a just god as you define him as being, then the opportunity would be the same for all. We know that it isn't the case, therefore its a stupid belief.

It is the same opportunity. We all have access to the same evidence, and we all have exactly one lifetime to believe. It doesn't get any more fair than that.

[JimL]

Well, for arguments sake, assume God is real and the bible is true. since basically that is what you are doing with your objection above.

Humanity started out knowing God. All of humanity. As humanity spread out, they left God, forgot about him. So those that don't know about Him only have their own ancestors to blame for that. And again, nobody is judged on whether they know about God or not. But whether they sin or not.

We have shown you this passage before:

Romans 2: 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

I see, so another contradiction comes to the fore. Believing in Jesus is irrelevant, so long as one follows the christian laws. But the assertion of Christianity is that, none of us always follow the laws, we are all, whether believers or not, sinners, and the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus. So which is it, do we have to believe in your god in order to be saved or not?

[Sparko]

I see, so another contradiction comes to the fore. Believing in Jesus is irrelevant, so long as one follows the christian laws. But the assertion of Christianity is that, none of us always follow the laws, we are all, whether believers or not, sinners, and the only way to be saved is to believe in Jesus. So which is it, do we have to believe in your god in order to be saved or not?

We all are sinners, JimL. By our own actions. Our own conscience condemns us if we don't know about God and the Law. Like the saying goes, "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse"



You kinda suck at this whole attempt at playing "gotcha"