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Triumph of Trump: NFL kneeling

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  • To be fair, what means of protest would A) actually get attention and B) wouldn't upset people?

    It seems people get triggered about any means of protest. People even went ballistic when the Hamilton cast addressed Pence following a play (even when speaking in a polite tone). I can understand why they would just stop caring about what people think and want to do what gets the most attention.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      To be fair, what means of protest would A) actually get attention and B) wouldn't upset people?
      That's something somebody has to consider. Will the "blowback" wipe out the "message"? In this case, I don't think it was well thought out.

      It seems people get triggered about any means of protest.
      It's the world we live in, so that needs to be taken into consideration.

      People even went ballistic when the Hamilton cast addressed Pence following a play (even when speaking in a polite tone). I can understand why they would just stop caring about what people think and want to do what gets the most attention.
      Meh... I think when I'm paying people to entertain me, I really don't need them to attack my beliefs.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        That's something somebody has to consider. Will the "blowback" wipe out the "message"? In this case, I don't think it was well thought out.
        In this case I think the message was largely wiped out. There was a lot of actual discussion about the topic when people wore "I can't breathe" T-shirts after the death of that one guy in New York City. Here, there's been a lot of discussion and debate but not a lot that actually deals with the intended topic.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          In this case I think the message was largely wiped out. There was a lot of actual discussion about the topic when people wore "I can't breathe" T-shirts after the death of that one guy in New York City. Here, there's been a lot of discussion and debate but not a lot that actually deals with the intended topic.
          And I'm still astonished by the claim "they're saving lives". All they seem to be doing is creating more controversy, as both sides dig in deeper.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            OK, let's go with that..... there's already MEGA-attention on the "systemic racism by police" situation. In fact, as I type this, I think it's a case where there was OVER-saturation by the media, and people got tired of hearing the same thing over and over, especially when it was exposed as being based on a bunch of lies in a number of the high profile case.

            So, in their infinite wisdom (I really don't need sarcasm tags, do I? ) the NFL dudes pick the DUMBEST way to get their "message" across.

            I mean - come on... "let's not pay respect to the flag during the national anthem so we can get our message out". I mean, what can POSSIBLY go wrong?

            Why didn't even ONE of those geniuses (genii? ) say "hold on, guys -- it's possible our message will get overshadowed by controversy, and the fans - they're the ones who ultimately pay our salaries - maybe there's a better way to get our message out there".
            In my opinion, I don't think kneeling disrespects the flag (I think of flag disrespect as burning, stomping, and dragging), I don't have any reverence for the national anthem, and I believe in their cause. That's why I find this hullabaloo confusing. I'm certainly not unique in these views among liberals, and in a world of just us this protest would be a footnote. This incomprehensible conservative reaction is the whole reason this protest is getting attention and turning into "something that matters" and, at this scale, would have been unpredictable.

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            • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
              This incomprehensible conservative reaction
              It's okay! You libs just keep not understanding this, also how you lost election in 2016!!

              Looking forward to no understanding of yours for losing in 2018, also 2020!!!
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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              • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                In my opinion, I don't think kneeling disrespects the flag
                And that's fine, PM - but you really don't have a flavor for the patriotism at sporting events. These guys should have known better.

                (I think of flag disrespect as burning, stomping, and dragging), I don't have any reverence for the national anthem,
                But that's the point - you're over there, and can't really appreciate the situation in public arenas, where, traditionally, there was this "we're all one people" moment before fighting it out on the field.

                and I believe in their cause.
                OK, what, in your understanding, is their cause?

                That's why I find this hullabaloo confusing. I'm certainly not unique in these views among liberals, and in a world of just us this protest would be a footnote. This incomprehensible conservative reaction is the whole reason this protest is getting attention and turning into "something that matters" and, at this scale, would have been unpredictable.
                I really don't think it's just conservatives. Conservatives aren't the only ones who have served in the military, or have a sense of nostalgia when 'Old Glory' flies.... But the left can't seem to fashion a cogent argument that doesn't turn into a "hate all cops" or "all cops are bad" narrative.

                As I have said before, my son-in-law is a command sergeant in our local police department, and he has been rushed TWICE by African-Americans at traffic stops in a very threatening way yelling things like "go ahead and shoot me, you !@#$^!&^". We had a local McDonald's employee refusing to serve cops at the drive-thru window because she "hated cops". We've had people boasting they spit in the food when cops order it.

                So, in a world where black on black crime is killing FAR more blacks than 'rogue cops', it just doesn't make sense to fuel a false narrative.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • I just saw a picture of the flag being rolled up and kept lying on the ground at one NFL stadium before the anthem. If this picture is authentic, it seems rather odd in light of all the "respect for the flag" rhetoric I'm hearing from the NFL.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                    In my opinion, I don't think kneeling disrespects the flag...
                    What a nice way to put it. "Ah, they're just kneeling. What's the harm?" I just love disingenuous liberals, don't you?

                    Let's put it this way: refusing to stand at attention and place one's hand over their heart during the singing of the national anthem is disrespectful to the flag and everything it represents.

                    Do you get it now?

                    You say the players are getting their message out. Are they? By making it all about them and tanking their meal ticket by pissing off the fans who refuse to watch as the country they love is disrespected by pampered and privileged millionaires?
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                    • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      I don't think "hand up don't shoot" was instrumental. I don't see why BLM wouldn't exist without it.
                      How so? BLM got its jump-start with that false narrative.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        And that's fine, PM - but you really don't have a flavor for the patriotism at sporting events. These guys should have known better. But that's the point - you're over there, and can't really appreciate the situation in public arenas, where, traditionally, there was this "we're all one people" moment before fighting it out on the field.
                        Maybe you're right.

                        OK, what, in your understanding, is their cause?
                        Unequal/unjust treatment of black people by the police as symbolized by high-profile police shootings of unarmed black men where the officer(s) involved faced no real penalty and, to a greater extent, our society's systemic racism.

                        I really don't think it's just conservatives. Conservatives aren't the only ones who have served in the military, or have a sense of nostalgia when 'Old Glory' flies.... But the left can't seem to fashion a cogent argument that doesn't turn into a "hate all cops" or "all cops are bad" narrative.

                        As I have said before, my son-in-law is a command sergeant in our local police department, and he has been rushed TWICE by African-Americans at traffic stops in a very threatening way yelling things like "go ahead and shoot me, you !@#$^!&^". We had a local McDonald's employee refusing to serve cops at the drive-thru window because she "hated cops". We've had people boasting they spit in the food when cops order it.

                        So, in a world where black on black crime is killing FAR more blacks than 'rogue cops', it just doesn't make sense to fuel a false narrative.
                        There are examples of older people and veterans who support the protests, and anecdotally I've only seen opposition from conservatives. I think the unequal/unjust treatment of black people by police is an easier problem to solve than crime rates in black neighborhoods.
                        Last edited by Psychic Missile; 10-24-2017, 01:36 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          What a nice way to put it. "Ah, they're just kneeling. What's the harm?" I just love disingenuous liberals, don't you?

                          Let's put it this way: refusing to stand at attention and place one's hand over their heart during the singing of the national anthem is disrespectful to the flag and everything it represents.

                          Do you get it now?

                          You say the players are getting their message out. Are they? By making it all about them and tanking their meal ticket by pissing off the fans who refuse to watch as the country they love is disrespected by pampered and privileged millionaires?
                          I get that you care more about culturally arbitrary political posturing than objectively harmful acts against symbology and ceremony. I should hope that wealthy people use their money and influence to advance good causes and I'm glad conservatives are so sensitive and easy to offend that what should have been a futile act turned into a fixture of the news cycle.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            How so? BLM got its jump-start with that false narrative.
                            Why do you think that? There were plenty of deaths that grew BLM momentum to the point where any single one could have never happened without having an impact, let alone minor details like this. Furthermore, the veracity of "hand up don't shoot" doesn't matter as much as what it represents. This is a good article explaining why.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              As previously stated, MLK and his people knew they were risking jail and possibly death, as that had already been happening. They took a stand regardless.
                              As per MLK and the Civil Rights movement, people are made aware of the grievances of the black population in a white dominated society. Less small-minded people would regard this as a noble cause...especially as the millionaire players have little to personally gain from their stance.

                              These overpaid athletes are abusing their position as TEAM players to advance their own agenda at other people's expense.
                              Their “own agenda” is that of their community and its concerns against police brutality against them.

                              But, that's what liberals do, and there will always be incredibly simple-minded people to applaud that.
                              Here we go.....
                              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                And that's fine, PM - but you really don't have a flavor for the patriotism at sporting events. These guys should have known better.



                                But that's the point - you're over there, and can't really appreciate the situation in public arenas, where, traditionally, there was this "we're all one people" moment before fighting it out on the field.



                                OK, what, in your understanding, is their cause?



                                I really don't think it's just conservatives. Conservatives aren't the only ones who have served in the military, or have a sense of nostalgia when 'Old Glory' flies.... But the left can't seem to fashion a cogent argument that doesn't turn into a "hate all cops" or "all cops are bad" narrative.

                                As I have said before, my son-in-law is a command sergeant in our local police department, and he has been rushed TWICE by African-Americans at traffic stops in a very threatening way yelling things like "go ahead and shoot me, you !@#$^!&^". We had a local McDonald's employee refusing to serve cops at the drive-thru window because she "hated cops". We've had people boasting they spit in the food when cops order it.

                                So, in a world where black on black crime is killing FAR more blacks than 'rogue cops', it just doesn't make sense to fuel a false narrative.
                                OTOH they want to make it so that only the police have firearms. And on the other hand they think that the police are racist homicidal maniacs.
                                Last edited by rogue06; 10-24-2017, 03:26 AM.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

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                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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