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Thread: Triumph of Trump: NFL kneeling

  1. #11
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    It's not that Trump did anything to stop it; Trump's comments were the reason there was mass kneeling in the first place. It only needed to be done once to make the point which was why it wasn't repeated this week. The idea that Trump solved a problem that was mostly caused by him in the first place is spin jujitsu Baghdad Bob would be proud of.
    It was simple economics. Viewership has sharply dropped. Attendance/ticket sales is way down. And DirecTV is offering refunds to those who purchased their NFL package. Several polls show that the public is opposed to these antics by something like a 2-to-1 margin, although the MSM (which heavily supports it) tries to cover this up by simply reporting that the country is "divided" over the issue (I'm sure that's exactly how they would portray it if the public supported it by a 2-to-1 margin ). OTOH, the public also opposes Trump getting involved in this by a similar ratio (which the press is delighted to highlight).

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    It looks like the NBA is reacting preemptively by banning such demonstrations before their season starts. I'm actually surprised that the MSM didn't do their typical spinning on their eyebrows spitting out wooden nickles response to it.
    The NBA isn't doing anything other than stating the existence of a rule they've had for a long time. The only time it's ever come up in NBA history was in the mid 90s when a Muslim player refused to stand for the anthem on religious grounds, and he ended up working out a compromise with the league. (A rebellion against the NBA's current decree seems unlikely; the NBA commissioner is actually well liked by players. He built up a significant amount of good will on racial justice issues by kicking Donald Sterling out of the league a couple years ago.)

    I'm skeptical that economic concerns played a broad role in the NFL players' decision not to repeat as their own salaries were not really at risk.
    Last edited by KingsGambit; 10-02-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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  3. #13
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    . . . and Napoleon won the Battle of Waterloo.

    No owners nor coaches are firing anyone for kneeling during the National Anthem, and it is clear that the NFL is denying Trump's dictatorial decree that it be done.
    I'll forgive you not understanding how Trump won because you're a simpleton but

    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    It's not that Trump did anything to stop it; Trump's comments were the reason there was mass kneeling in the first place. It only needed to be done once to make the point which was why it wasn't repeated this week. The idea that Trump solved a problem that was mostly caused by him in the first place is spin jujitsu Baghdad Bob would be proud of.
    You should know better.

    Nobody said Trump solved a problem (though the bizarre idea that Trump started all this IS Baghdad Bob worthy). What demi said (accurately) is that Trump won. Which he did. He positioned himself as defender of the flag and anthem and his stupid opponents (I guess football really does do brain damage) took the plain and obvious bait he set. The point wasn't to win an argument with the players, the point was for Trump to rally his base against the NFL and their atrocious, anti-conservative double standards. And his victory was decisive. The NFL is losing a ton of money over this debacle and contra your insinuations that this was supposed to just be a 1 week thing the players almost certainly got hammered behind the scenes. At the end of the day the NFL is there to make money by entertaining people. The blatant disrespect the players show to the anthem (in the name of a false cause at that) does not entertain the typical white conservative families that watch their games. It takes some serious delusion to think this was anything other than a rout.
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    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The NBA isn't doing anything other than stating the existence of a rule they've had for a long time. The only time it's ever come up in NBA history was in the mid 90s when a Muslim player refused to stand for the anthem on religious grounds, and he ended up working out a compromise with the league. (A rebellion against the NBA's current decree seems unlikely; the NBA commissioner is actually well liked by players. He built up a significant amount of good will on racial justice issues by kicking Donald Sterling out of the league a couple years ago.)
    The same rule exists in the NFL, the NFL simply isn't enforcing it in this case, which was part of the issue in the first place because they threatened to punish players for wearing memorial shoes to 9/11 victims and only backed off because of public outcry.

    I'm skeptical that economic concerns played a broad role in the NFL players' decision not to repeat as their own salaries were not really at risk.
    That makes no sense. They get paid because the NFL makes money. If ticket prices go down their pay will too, even if not right away.
    "But Lord, in your name did we not vote Democrat, and in your name did we not attend many Bernie rallies?" ~ Zymologist

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    That makes no sense. They get paid because the NFL makes money. If ticket prices go down their pay will too, even if not right away.
    Most players are in and out of the league within 2-3 years; I doubt there would be a seismic fall in salaries in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody from the union circulated a message to knock it off though.
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    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Most players are in and out of the league within 2-3 years; I doubt there would be a seismic fall in salaries in that time. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody from the union circulated a message to knock it off though.
    There's already been a significant drop in sales. So even if you're only around for a couple of years you'll probably feel it.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...rcent-n2388235

    The bigger issue for the NFL is that sales were (already) dropping, so the last thing they needed was to see that drop accelerate.
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  8. #17
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The NBA isn't doing anything other than stating the existence of a rule they've had for a long time. The only time it's ever come up in NBA history was in the mid 90s when a Muslim player refused to stand for the anthem on religious grounds, and he ended up working out a compromise with the league. (A rebellion against the NBA's current decree seems unlikely; the NBA commissioner is actually well liked by players. He built up a significant amount of good will on racial justice issues by kicking Donald Sterling out of the league a couple years ago.)

    I'm skeptical that economic concerns played a broad role in the NFL players' decision not to repeat as their own salaries were not really at risk.
    Commissioner Adam Silver made it clear that he expected players to stand for the anthem and that individual teams "do not have the discretion to waive" the rule that players, coaches and staff stand for the anthem. It also looks like they will be in charge of disciplining those who ignore the rule rather than leaving it up to individual teams to do so.

    As for the economics... The players could well feel it when they negotiate new contracts and are informed that due to a sharp drop in revenue from ticket sales, TV viewership, sale of memorabilia and gear (folks are burning the jerseys they own or using them as door mats rather than buying more)... that they will simply have to settle for less than they're demanding.

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    The NFL is already in a possible death spiral apart from this issue, mostly due to market oversaturation and the concussion issue. I predict the death knell for football will be when insurance companies refuse to insure high school football eventually.
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  10. #19
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The NFL is already in a possible death spiral apart from this issue, mostly due to market oversaturation and the concussion issue. I predict the death knell for football will be when insurance companies refuse to insure high school football eventually.
    IOW, the last thing in the world they need is foolish self-inflicted wounds.

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  11. #20
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Commissioner Adam Silver made it clear that he expected players to stand for the anthem and that individual teams "do not have the discretion to waive" the rule that players, coaches and staff stand for the anthem. It also looks like they will be in charge of disciplining those who ignore the rule rather than leaving it up to individual teams to do so.

    As for the economics... The players could well feel it when they negotiate new contracts and are informed that due to a sharp drop in revenue from ticket sales, TV viewership, sale of memorabilia and gear (folks are burning the jerseys they own or using them as door mats rather than buying more)... that they will simply have to settle for less than they're demanding.
    All of which may or may not be true. But the real issue underlying the kneeling has been highlighted more than ever by the kerfuffle. Namely the police brutality and racial inequality against blacks in the US.
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