Triumph of Trump: NFL kneeling

[Sparko]

Yes it was a big issue before but it’s a much bigger issue now since Trump’s incendiary comments. They have revitalised the protests.

Whether in future they consist of kneeling during the anthem or locking arms to indicate a unified way to raise awareness of police brutality and racism, it’s unlikely that pro football players will abandon this form of protest now. Not for as long as they still believe it's a valid way to call attention to what they see as fundamental racial inequities in the justice system. Regardless of what Trump has to say to his redneck supporters in Alabama and elsewhere.

Look I admit Trump made things worse. He has no filter and says some pretty stupid things. That doesn't mean that the NFL players were right in disrespecting our country and our anthem. Also, they were not even taking a knee to protest inequality against blacks. They didn't do so previously did they? No, they were doing it just to spite Trump.

[Tassman]

Look I admit Trump made things worse. He has no filter and says some pretty stupid things. That doesn't mean that the NFL players were right in disrespecting our country and our anthem. Also, they were not even taking a knee to protest inequality against blacks.

Many of the protesting players have tweeted or made statements to the effect that they mean the flag no disrespect, but that they believe racial injustice degrades American values...AND the symbolism of the flag. It was started by Colin Kaepernick but, thanks to The Donald, it has escalated to much more. After all, the solitary protest of Rosa Parks sparked the American Civil Rights movement.

They didn't do so previously did they? No, they were doing it just to spite Trump.

Trump has only himself to blame.

[Bill the Cat]

Many of the protesting players have tweeted or made statements to the effect that they mean the flag no disrespect,

Intent did not equal result. They may not have meant to disrespect the flag, but they did. That's why only 7 kneeled last weekend.

[Mountain Man]

Yes it was a big issue before but it’s a much bigger issue now since Trump’s incendiary comments.

Yes, things have gotten worse... for the NFL.

Ticket sales are down, attendance is down, television ratings are down, advertisers have started pulling ads.

And this was on top of already sagging interest in the sport.

[Tassman]

Intent did not equal result. They may not have meant to disrespect the flag, but they did. That's why only 7 kneeled last weekend.

They did not disrespect the flag, except into the minds of racists. As Samuel Johnson said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”. You are deliberately attempting to re-frame the protests as an attack on the flag or the military or America, when it’s not this at all. This strategy has been used by racists for decades.

It was done to Martin Luther King and the civil rights protesters by trying to turn them into “communists” who hated America, when all they were trying to do was make America a better, more just and more equal country that actually lived the principles it proclaimed. This is also the case with the NFL and their protests, which you are trying to re-brand as traitors to American values when in fact the reverse is true.

[Bill the Cat]

They did not disrespect the flag, except into the minds of racists.

Label whore.

As Samuel Johnson said, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”.

As Bill the Cat said, "Tassman is an idiot".

You are deliberately attempting to re-frame the protests as an attack on the flag or the military or America, when it’s not this at all.

No I am not reframing anything. I know what message they were trying to send. I have a problem with their METHOD, which was disrespectful to the flag and those that serve under it.

This strategy has been used by racists for decades.

It was done to Martin Luther King and the civil rights protesters by trying to turn them into “communists” who hated America, when all they were trying to do was make America a better, more just and more equal country that actually lived the principles it proclaimed. This is also the case with the NFL and their protests, which you are trying to re-brand as traitors to American values when in fact the reverse is true.

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[Mountain Man]

Source: Breitbart

The NFL had some big moments on Thursday night, Cam Newton issued an apology in response to one of the worst, most manufactured controversies in the history of the NFL. Moreover, another thing happened, there were no protests during the anthem.

Now, the game between the Patriots and Buccaneers was still a slop-fest with dropped passes, overthrown balls, badly missed field goals, and penalties all over the place. So the NFL still has the problem of not being good at playing football. However, on the flip-side, they showed up and played football. Without any of the drama, theatrics, or the narcissistic fashion show the league has become.

Granted, the two teams that played on Thursday night, the Bucs and the Patriots, have never had a ton of protesters on either side. Especially the Patriots, who didn’t have any protesters until two weeks ago when the defending champs decided to protest President Trump. Had Thursday night featured the Seahawks and the Raiders, two teams with a lot of protesters, the anthem would have looked much different.

Yet it was probably the closest thing to a normal primetime game, that the league has seen in a very long time. While the Michael Bennett’s of the world will likely continue their protests until the bitter end. Watching, the NFL Thursday night, as well as the tremendous drop off in protests from last week. One gets the impression that the vast majority of the NFL might just be ready to respect the flag, and play some football.

And that couldn’t come a moment too soon.

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017...hursday-night/

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

Source: Breitbart

The NFL had some big moments on Thursday night, Cam Newton issued an apology in response to one of the worst, most manufactured controversies in the history of the NFL. Moreover, another thing happened, there were no protests during the anthem.

Now, the game between the Patriots and Buccaneers was still a slop-fest with dropped passes, overthrown balls, badly missed field goals, and penalties all over the place. So the NFL still has the problem of not being good at playing football. However, on the flip-side, they showed up and played football. Without any of the drama, theatrics, or the narcissistic fashion show the league has become.

Granted, the two teams that played on Thursday night, the Bucs and the Patriots, have never had a ton of protesters on either side. Especially the Patriots, who didn’t have any protesters until two weeks ago when the defending champs decided to protest President Trump. Had Thursday night featured the Seahawks and the Raiders, two teams with a lot of protesters, the anthem would have looked much different.

Yet it was probably the closest thing to a normal primetime game, that the league has seen in a very long time. While the Michael Bennett’s of the world will likely continue their protests until the bitter end. Watching, the NFL Thursday night, as well as the tremendous drop off in protests from last week. One gets the impression that the vast majority of the NFL might just be ready to respect the flag, and play some football.

And that couldn’t come a moment too soon.

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017...hursday-night/

© Copyright Original Source

Which goes to show that I was right when I said that they were not protesting racism, or police brutality at all. They were just protesting Trump. So much for Tassman's holier-than-thou rhetoric.

[Tassman]

Source: Breitbart

The NFL had some big moments on Thursday night, Cam Newton issued an apology in response to one of the worst, most manufactured controversies in the history of the NFL. Moreover, another thing happened, there were no protests during the anthem.

Now, the game between the Patriots and Buccaneers was still a slop-fest with dropped passes, overthrown balls, badly missed field goals, and penalties all over the place. So the NFL still has the problem of not being good at playing football. However, on the flip-side, they showed up and played football. Without any of the drama, theatrics, or the narcissistic fashion show the league has become.

Granted, the two teams that played on Thursday night, the Bucs and the Patriots, have never had a ton of protesters on either side. Especially the Patriots, who didn’t have any protesters until two weeks ago when the defending champs decided to protest President Trump. Had Thursday night featured the Seahawks and the Raiders, two teams with a lot of protesters, the anthem would have looked much different.

Yet it was probably the closest thing to a normal primetime game, that the league has seen in a very long time. While the Michael Bennett’s of the world will likely continue their protests until the bitter end. Watching, the NFL Thursday night, as well as the tremendous drop off in protests from last week. One gets the impression that the vast majority of the NFL might just be ready to respect the flag, and play some football. And that couldn’t come a moment too soon.

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017...hursday-night/

© Copyright Original Source

Only MM, with his unmatched flair for biased quotes would link to Breitbart for a commentary on black rights issues given that “Breitbart News is a far-right news, opinion, and commentary website which Steve Bannon described as "the platform for the alt-right”. The alt-right is a far-right movement that opposes multiculturalism and social justice movements...just what you need to discuss the grievances of black citizens in the USA.

[Tassman]

As Bill the Cat said, "Tassman is an idiot".

Samuel Johnson was an esteemed essayist, biographer and poet whose opinions were of value...as opposed to BtC.

No I am not reframing anything. I know what message they were trying to send. I have a problem with their METHOD, which was disrespectful to the flag and those that serve under it.

That's exactly what you're doing. This strategy has been used by racists for decades in order to discredit the demands of those demanding their rights. The issue is not disrespecting the flag any more than the black civil rights movement was Communist inspired... as it was alleged at the time in order to demonise the movement.

[Psychic Missile]

No I am not reframing anything. I know what message they were trying to send. I have a problem with their METHOD, which was disrespectful to the flag and those that serve under it.

Wearing the flag as clothing, letting it drag on the ground, stomping on it, burning it, these are all things I think of when I hear "disrespecting the flag". Kneeling is actually a respectful gesture. This entire controversy is a mountain out of a molehill and people are way too sensitive. I find this especially strange since players attending the anthem is a farce to begin with. Why is everyone so attached to a false tradition? This is like if the government paid the MLB to have players curtsy to a statue of George Washington before every game and a bunch of people got angry because one player dared to bow instead.

[Tassman]

Wearing the flag as clothing, letting it drag on the ground, stomping on it, burning it, these are all things I think of when I hear "disrespecting the flag". Kneeling is actually a respectful gesture. This entire controversy is a mountain out of a molehill and people are way too sensitive. I find this especially strange since players attending the anthem is a farce to begin with. Why is everyone so attached to a false tradition? This is like if the government paid the MLB to have players curtsy to a statue of George Washington before every game and a bunch of people got angry because one player dared to bow instead.

Huffing and puffing about 'respect for our Flag' is a means to avoid what the NFL kneeling is all about, namely calling attention to police violence and injustice in black America, especially after several high-profile fatal police shootings of black men.

[Mountain Man]

Only MM, with his unmatched flair for biased quotes would link to Breitbart for a commentary on black rights issues given that “Breitbart News is a far-right news, opinion, and commentary website which Steve Bannon described as "the platform for the alt-right”. The alt-right is a far-right movement that opposes multiculturalism and social justice movements...just what you need to discuss the grievances of black citizens in the USA.

I read this entire screed waiting for you to get beyond the genetic fallacy and present an actual argument, but nope, it was just a genetic fallacy all the way down.

[Mountain Man]

Huffing and puffing about 'respect for our Flag' is a means to avoid what the NFL kneeling is all about, namely calling attention to police violence and injustice in black America, especially after several high-profile fatal police shootings of black men.

It's a false narrative.

Source: Washington Post

...there has also been a contrary narrative, that officers are hesitant to fire at black suspects, starting with a 1977 analysis of reports from major metropolitan departments which found officers fired more shots at white suspects than at black suspects, possibly because of “public sentiment concerning treatment of blacks.” And in 2004, David Klinger at the University of Missouri-St. Louis interviewed more than 100 officers and found “evidence of increased wariness about using deadly force against black suspects for fear of how it would be perceived and the associated consequences.”

Into this conflict of views enters Lois James at Washington State, who has made studying the race factor in police shootings a specialty. For the most part, simply using data from police reports doesn’t include the episodes where an officer doesn’t shoot or doesn’t hit a target. So she has turned to the lab to try to simulate the circumstances officers face on the job, keeping all the factors identical within a scenario — type of weapon, body language and spoken threats, clothes, surroundings — except the race of the suspect.

In two previous tests using police simulators, James monitored the neurophysiological reactions, such as brain waves, of both police officers and civilians to deadly encounters. She said in an interview Tuesday that she found that “the participants were experiencing a greater threat response when faced with African Americans instead of white or Hispanic suspects.” But even with that response, in both studies the police and non-police participants were “significantly slower to shoot armed black suspects than armed white suspects, and significantly less likely to mistakenly shoot unarmed black suspects than unarmed white suspects.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-surprise-you/

© Copyright Original Source

Some other 'inconvenient truths":

A 2011 report by the New York City Police Department shows while only 15% of white suspects are armed (compared to 56% of blacks), and that 67% of suspects who fired on police were black compared to 0% who were white, whites are disproportionately more likely to be shot at and/or killed by police.

Graph 1.jpg
Graph 2.jpg
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloa...eport_2011.pdf

In other words, police are more likely to be shot at by a black suspect but are more likely to shoot at a white suspect.

[Terraceth]

Wearing the flag as clothing, letting it drag on the ground, stomping on it, burning it, these are all things I think of when I hear "disrespecting the flag". Kneeling is actually a respectful gesture. This entire controversy is a mountain out of a molehill and people are way too sensitive. I find this especially strange since players attending the anthem is a farce to begin with. Why is everyone so attached to a false tradition? This is like if the government paid the MLB to have players curtsy to a statue of George Washington before every game and a bunch of people got angry because one player dared to bow instead.

I don't really care if someone stands or kneels. What does annoy me is that the players are trying to use what's supposed to be a fun and apolitical sporting event as an opportunity to try to make some kind of political commentary.