Mass Shooting Las Vegas...

[Teallaura]

Now you're being pedantic. "Perfectly safe" is a figure of speech. I don't mean it literally.

How do you enforce responsible handling of a firearm? The same way you enforce responsible handling of a motor vehicle. I mean, last I checked, there are penalties for recklessly discharging a firearm or accidentally shooting someone.

I do believe I made myself clear that the wording mattered from the first.

Also, I believe Adrift made that same point - and motor vehicles are required to be registered.

[Sparko]

I do believe I made myself clear that the wording mattered from the first.

Also, I believe Adrift made that same point - and motor vehicles are required to be registered.

Driving cars is not a right.

[Joel]

...as far as violent crime and murder statistics are concerned...rate of mass killings...a dozen mass killings...does nothing to curtail violent crime?

mass shootings...gun violence....This is really all you need to know

The conflation of "violent crime" with "gun violence" is a (fallacious) rhetorical slight of hand often used by opponents of guns.

[Joel]

So you believe that the people should have the right to own and bear any kind of weapon that exists?

Because Sparko is talking about natural rights, there is no question of "should". We either have the right or we don't, and there's nothing we or any state can do to change that.

[Teallaura]

No, you can't. I haven't ever lost a pet or a friend to an accident involving knives, or electronics - NEVER. The only person I knew who was killed in a car wreck was killed when a fleeing suspect crossing into oncoming traffic years ago - technically, guns were involved, although not being fired. Never known anyone who accidentally poisoned themselves.

But I have been shot at on three different occasions. I have lost more than ten dogs and cats (how the heck do you mistake a ginger cat for a deer?!). I lost a friend and several years before I lost a neighbor.

So no - it's NOT the same.

[Teallaura]

OBP and I are 'fellows' now?

Psst, she meant Sparky.

[Teallaura]

Yes they are.

Machine Guns Are Legal: A Practical Guide to Full Auto
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ide-full-auto/

So are bazookas:

https://www.atf.gov/file/55446/download

I stand corrected - 'heavily regulated'.

Although I think this is incorrect but it would have been pre-incorporation and not worth hunting down the state decisions.

[Teallaura]

Driving cars is not a right.

Sure it is. That would fall under 'unnumerated'.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - really incredibly hard to argue that limiting transportation in a nation where it is essential to most people's livelihoods is anything but a violation of rights.

And, as Jed already pointed out, the right is NOT unlimited - so your counter-point is pretty silly.

[Sparko]

I stand corrected - 'heavily regulated'.

Although I think this is incorrect but it would have been pre-incorporation and not worth hunting down the state decisions.

You just need a $200 permit. Not so heavily regulated.

[Teallaura]

You just need a $200 permit. Not so heavily regulated.

Look, I'm taking the word of your own source from which I quoted, "heavily regulated". I'm going to presume the guy isn't a total moron and there's more to getting a permit than forking over $200. If not, then I retract the concession and will do the research myself since your source would then be impeached.

Your call.

[Sparko]

Look, I'm taking the word of your own source from which I quoted, "heavily regulated". I'm going to presume the guy isn't a total moron and there's more to getting a permit than forking over $200. If not, then I retract the concession and will do the research myself since your source would then be impeached.

Your call.

I was talking about the bazookas. And on the machine guns, the heavily regulated is not too bad but yes you can call it heavily regulated. But still legal


Pay a tax of $200
Fill out a lengthy application to register your gun with the federal government
Submit photographs
Submit passport photos
Get your chief law enforcement official to sign your application
Wait for the results of your background check to come back

[Littlejoe]

Sure it is. That would fall under 'unnumerated'.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - really incredibly hard to argue that limiting transportation in a nation where it is essential to most people's livelihoods is anything but a violation of rights.

And, as Jed already pointed out, the right is NOT unlimited - so your counter-point is pretty silly.

False according to case law. The right to travel/transportation does not translate into right to drive.

In 1999, the 9th Circuit of the U.S. Court of Appeals, in the case of Donald S. Miller v. the California Department of Motor Vehicles

[Sparko]

Sure it is. That would fall under 'unnumerated'.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - really incredibly hard to argue that limiting transportation in a nation where it is essential to most people's livelihoods is anything but a violation of rights.

And, as Jed already pointed out, the right is NOT unlimited - so your counter-point is pretty silly.

No it is not a right, that is why you have to have a license and they can take away your ability to drive. It is legally a 'privilege' not a right.

https://driversed.com/driving-inform...t-a-right.aspx

[JimL]

Because Sparko is talking about natural rights, there is no question of "should". We either have the right or we don't, and there's nothing we or any state can do to change that.

How are you defining a natural right, and what makes owning a ground to air missile say, a natural right?

[JimL]

No it is not a right, that is why you have to have a license and they can take away your ability to drive. It is legally a 'privilege' not a right.

https://driversed.com/driving-inform...t-a-right.aspx

And why should possessing and using firearms be any different than possessing and using a car?