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Mass Shooting Las Vegas...

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Actually, armed resistance tends to have a deterrent effect even on a determined killer. Both the Sandy Hook and Las Vegas mass murderers turned their guns on themselves as soon as someone (potentially) armed showed up.
    And those two killers in body armor went on a spree that killed multiple FBI and law enforcement officers. The guy in Vegas shot out of a hotel window rather than join the crowd where he might have been stopped earlier. So, yeah, a determined killer, with a functional brain, can over come that deterrent the same way he over comes obtaining the fire arms.

    We aren't going to achieve perfection - but we can and have achieved reduction.

    I'm not sure how much further we can go - would stricter laws help or do we just need to adjust on things like this stock bump as needed? I'm not sure - the stats are all over the place and I'm thinking it's the supply side that needs tightening, more than the individual access.

    I don't like the knee jerk reactions of either side - ban everything and arm everyone. They are both stupid. Which is why crisis legislation is usually bad legislation.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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    • Originally posted by Joel View Post
      I'm beginning to think Teallaura has me on ignore.
      No, I actually have a tab open to that post - I just haven't gotten to it yet.
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

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      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        I don't support abolition. And your conclusion is a false one - gun control has worked.
        Indeed it has... it's the reason so many mass shootings have happened in gun-free zones.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Aren't you the same person who is always criticizing others for the logic they use and yet you offer this?
          You yourself offered the supporting statistics, Rogue.
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

          My Personal Blog

          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

          Quill Sword

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          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
            Unless you own insane amount of property, I can't think of a way that you'd use a car without leaving your property.
            In his case, it's on blocks and providing parts for his brother-in-law.

            He's correct that vehicles that aren't in use don't require renewed registration. But that is merely comparable to grandfathered in fire arms - well, sorta. In practice, cars are registered shortly after purchase and it would not be legal not to do so at that time. You wouldn't need to renew if you left it parked rather than ever use it but it would have already been registered.

            As for guns, I see no reason your proposal wouldn't work.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Quill Sword

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            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              just look back before they banned fully automatic weapons or limited magazine capacity. did we have a bunch more mass shootings then compared to now? nope. so banning those things did not change anything. looking back, despite all gun control laws and restrictions, we have more mass shootings than ever in history.

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]24349[/ATTACH]
              The culture has changed dramatically.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Well you see, the problem you're having rogue is that you have to be intelligent yourself in order to recognize it in others.
                That was his exact point, Mr. Dunning Kruger.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                  More emotion and no logic, yep typical Jimmy. Of course, the fact that not a single proposed law would have prevented this from happening seems lost on you. Why?
                  Not to mention that everyone on every side finds the shooting equally horrible, except for at least one liberal. And she lost her job over that.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    I'm not sure I follow this reasoning. People who really want to get hold of illegal drugs can usually find a way. Lack of ready availability is a minor obstacle for anybody sufficiently motivated. Casual marijuana use is illegal in my state, but that hasn't stopped a number of my co-workers from regularly smoking.

                    I'm not saying that dangerous substances should not be regulated, but I think you might be overstating the effectiveness of such regulation.
                    Prisons, including maximum security ones, ought to be instructive here. Despite prisoners being regularly physically searched (often several times a day) and having your cell thoroughly searched as well, it is not difficult for them to get hold of either illegal drugs and/or weapons often including firearms. If you can not keep them out of an environment like that what hope do we have of keeping them out of a supposed free society?

                    Now, so that someone doesn't misconstrue what I'm saying, I'm not implying that we should just give up trying but rather pointing out to those who think that just by passing a law or declaring something illegal that it will somehow fix a problem that reality is simply not on your side here.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                    • Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post
                      Can you give a link to such studies?
                      http://rense.com/general76/univ.htm
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        It's not always easily available. There are times when an area will have a dry spell of a particular drug. And it's never as easily accessible as getting it at the corner dispensary. Its also a lot riskier, both to buy and to sell when it's illegal.
                        Some times even legal products go through "dry spells" where they're all but unobtainable. That's what happened around here with lemons earlier this year. For whatever reason, for about three weeks, you simply could not find them. Even restaurants started putting a slice of lime in your glass of water instead on a lemon because they were just not to be found.
                        Last edited by rogue06; 10-07-2017, 04:42 PM.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          Probably because the areas surrounding Chicago are suburbs were relatively well off people live.
                          And, most important I think, they are not as densely populated. I see a too dense population as the major problem with violence of all sorts.
                          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I readily concede that, but again, these are minor obstacles for anybody sufficiently motivated. I would suggest that your friends who didn't succumb to drugs did so because of reasons other than the fact that the drugs in question were illegal.
                            Quality control is often a major factor. Purity can fluctuate wildly so when an addict gets something that is stronger or laced with fentanyl accidental overdoses are not uncommon. Also, unscrupulous drug dealers (which is probably 99% of them) are well known for adding toxic substances (freaking battery acid was used back when I was young) to the drugs in order to increase the amount of drugs they have for sale and boost profits.

                            A case can be made that legalizing such drugs would lead to quality control through strict regulation and many deaths could be avoided.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              I'm not sure I get the comparison to Chicago that people keep mentioning. Chicago isn't a walled city. There aren't borders that you have to cross in order to leave Chicago. It's ridiculously easy to take two steps outside of Chicago and buy a gun legally, and bring it back with you. That's quite a bit different from a national ban where you'd have to find a gun on the black market, or cross a border and smuggle them in.
                              If accessibility to firearms was a factor don't you think that the places where the firearms are obtained should be experiencing comparable rates of gun related violence. But they don't even come close. I guess something other than availability must be in play here, wouldn't you agree?

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                In other words, it's not guns that are the problem.
                                Actually no one is arguing that guns are the only problem, guns can't fire themselves. Obviously the problem is people having easy access to mass killing machines.

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