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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Tell that to the idiot you elected.
    And Trump said there would be absolute security and he can prevent all crime where?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      One word: CONTEXT. It's not an argument!
      And I believe your letting your own experience color your perception instead of looking into the factual evidence itself. I work in maintenance, so I hear more about serious industrial accidents and know a few that might experience them than you do. People tend to overlook dangers, even when they should know better. We are also careful with our firearm storage and safety and our friends are too. The NRA is also quite into the business of firearm safety and even professionals get hurt (there’s a YouTube video of a cop accidently shooting himself during a safety demonstration). I am also no stranger to gun violence, my husband had a high school classmate killed last year in a murder suicide by her boyfriend. Is it tragedy? Sure, but I don’t find any proposed laws (beyond a total gun ban) that would have prevented her death. People do terrible things to one another and increased safety will not prevent the majority of gun deaths (only around 800 are due to accidents compared to the 32,000 yearly total gun deaths per year).
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roy View Post
        Demonstrating that your underlying claim
        "...there were six other mass shootings in America this past week alone. ...There hasn’t been a single one in Australia during the 21 years since."
        is dishonest garbage is neither trivial nor irrelevant.
        You haven’t demonstrated your claim of “different definitions of mass killings” in Australia or the US, therefore my comparison remains valid.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Precisely and the stats do show a downward slide in crime even when people perceive crime rates are increasing. Why? I suspect it has a lot to do with the 24 hour news media chasing any drama story they can get ahold of and running with it as long as possible.
          Not just cable news but local as well. The whole "if it bleeds it leads" philosophy has taken completely over.

          When I first moved here in the early 70s Atlanta had one of the higher murder rates in the country. But they were rarely the lead story. Generally, after the lead stories some ten to fifteen minutes into the broadcast there would be a mention of someone being killed with about three or four sentences dedicated to it.

          Now, a killing almost always is the lead story with at least five minutes dedicated to it.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Not just cable news but local as well. The whole "if it bleeds it leads" philosophy has taken completely over.

            When I first moved here in the early 70s Atlanta had one of the higher murder rates in the country. But they were rarely the lead story. Generally, after the lead stories some ten to fifteen minutes into the broadcast there would be a mention of someone being killed with about three or four sentences dedicated to it.

            Now, a killing almost always is the lead story with at least five minutes dedicated to it.
            Yeah, but I find the 24 hour news is what drives the beast. When you have to fill 24/7/365 with content, you need a stream of stories. I’ve also read a few articles discussing issues like the breakdown of newspapers and journalistic standards being the other part of the problem too. Fewer journalist, with a lot more content to fill leads to them chasing easier stories and trying to hold onto them. Crime stories are not too difficult and if it brings the ratings and works itself, why not? I believe the current trends in news is the industry being shaken up and the old guard trying to hold onto what it once had. Quite interesting really and a good reason to switch off the 24 hour drama box we know as news.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Not just cable news but local as well. The whole "if it bleeds it leads" philosophy has taken completely over.

              When I first moved here in the early 70s Atlanta had one of the higher murder rates in the country. But they were rarely the lead story. Generally, after the lead stories some ten to fifteen minutes into the broadcast there would be a mention of someone being killed with about three or four sentences dedicated to it.

              Now, a killing almost always is the lead story with at least five minutes dedicated to it.
              Such is human nature.

              I closely follow motorsports and the media pays little attention to it unless a driver is injured or killed. It's nothing morbid, people are simply interested in life and death issues, and how they can related to them.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                And Trump said there would be absolute security and he can prevent all crime where?
                There is a difference between absolute security and zero effort to protect the public.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  The founders had no way to know what was coming in any area. They set limits to the government to protect freedom and allow "the people" rather than government to decide what was best for them.
                  The constitution is a complex document, and as the world changes, it is up to our judges on the supreme court to determine how the constitution applies to given issues. We the people play a part in that we vote for presidents and congressmen to appoint and approve of those judges, and over the years the SCOTUS has been mixed with a wide variety of personalities; at times leaning liberal, and at times leaning conservative.

                  But time and again, the SCOTUS has ruled that there is no contradiction between government regulation of fire arms and the second amendment. Even the most conservative judges like Scalia and affirmed this throughout the years, so it's some liberal belief based on nothing like you wish to believe, its the determination of our highest court time and again.

                  Gun control has been ruled constitutional many times, get over it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Joel View Post
                    Would you use the same principle in the case of kitchen knives, gasoline, fertilizer or whatever? If you didn't have it in a safe and it got stolen and was used to commit a crime, you'd be responsible?

                    Perhaps like Adrift you'd argue a difference in inherent dangerousness, but that seems like a matter of degree. Perhaps that would only affect your degree of responsibility?
                    It's called negligence, Joel.

                    If you don't get your car inspected or you drive recklessly, and cause an accident, you can be held responsible. If your child or pet destroys someone else property, you can be held responsible. If you have a hazardous tree that crashes into someone home, you can be held liable. Etc, etc, etc.

                    Gun owners and gun dealers should be no different. If they want to roll the dice and give a gun to someone based on their own judgement of that persons mental capacity, they should be held liable for any damages and be open to litigation.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      People think that the police and military are "professionals" so they know how to use guns better than the public. That's not true. Many civilian gun owners are just as proficient in gun use.
                      And many police and military are just as unproficient in gun use.

                      P.S. The inclusion of this link should not be considered to imply in any way that Sparko is wrong, deficient, insane, unstable, unsanitary; or to indicate any other potential criticism, disagreement, dismissal or floccinaucinihilipilification to which you might unaccountably leap. It is merely an link to a relevant item that may be of interest.
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TheWall View Post
                        You realize dear are pretty strong right?
                        Humans made weapons to deal with the fact that animals and other humans had ways to hurt them.
                        Humans made weapons in order to kill animals and other humans.
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                        seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          You haven’t demonstrated your claim of “different definitions of mass killings” in Australia or the US, therefore my comparison remains valid.
                          From your post here:
                          "...there were six other mass shootings in America this past week alone....

                          https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-gun-violence
                          From that link: "there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident, not including the shooter – every nine out of 10 days on average." The graphic there shows that 'shot' includes injured victims as well as fatalities, and that none of those six incidents they list qualify as mass shootings under the criteria you used for Australia: “While 13 gun massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), there were no gun massacres.”

                          The definition of mass shooting you cited for Australia (the killing of 4 or more people ) is not the same as the definition of mass shooting you cited for the US (four or more people shot ) because one includes non-fatal injuries and one does not. So when you said "...there were six other mass shootings in America this past week alone. ...There hasn’t been a single one in Australia during the 21 years since." you were wrong, because your comparison used non-matching criteria, and so was invalid.

                          Is that a clear enough demonstration for you?

                          P.S. This should not have been necessary. Even if you didn't notice the mismatch originally, you have had several reasons and opportunities to recheck your sources. You could and should have retracted your false claim a long time ago. Your latest insistence that your comparison remains valid because it hasn't been demonstrated wrong is total bollocks, because it had been demonstrated wrong, you simply couldn't be bothered to confirm that.

                          You claim you're an atheist. Stop behaving like a cretinous YEC conman.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            My FOIA request several years ago revealed a file as thick as my thumb stretching all the way back to 7th grade
                            You got your Permanent Record? They are real?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              If you took reasonable precautions to keep the weapon secured, you aren't responsible. Otherwise, it's your gun, you are responsible for it.
                              so if someone steals your car and kills someone, it's YOUR fault?

                              BTW I think there are already laws against leaving your gun out for easy access and a child were to pick it up and kill themselves or someone with it. Reckless endangerment at the very least.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                Guns are weapons. They are regulated because they are very good at increasing the deadliness of human violence. In fact, they can do so so well that humans with no training can kill humans bigger and stronger than themselves - which would be shear luck in the case of an armed conflict with a knife.

                                Which is why people steal them for use (as opposed to financial gain) - unlike knives, fertilizer and gasoline. Also unlike the same, no particular knowledge beyond 'point this way' is necessary for a gun to do what it's supposed to do - kill.

                                A fire arm is a different class of weapon. I owned swords and bows/arrows - but frankly, only with a gun could I have killed anyone (okay, maybe the long bow - that thing had an incredible range!). Swords and bows require a lot of training to be effective weapons in the majority of cases - guns simply don't.

                                There is a parallel case, however - dogs. You are responsible for your pet's actions. It bites someone, guess who pays?
                                You are responsible for your pet as long as he is under your influence and control, or should be. If someone stole your dog and your dog bit them or someone else, guess what? you are not responsible, they are.

                                Comment

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