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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Read The Taming of the Shrew. It really is quite hilarious.
    plays are a lot better when watched rather than read. I hated shakespeare but enjoyed actually going out and seeing a play when I was in high school. other kids were of the same opinion (we all thought it would be a huge drag beforehand).
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
      plays are a lot better when watched rather than read. I hated shakespeare but enjoyed actually going out and seeing a play when I was in high school. other kids were of the same opinion (we all thought it would be a huge drag beforehand).
      I have to agree since written plays (unlike books made into movies) are essentially a form of instruction manual for how to perform the play on stage.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • It never made sense to me to read something something that was intended to be watched, unless you're analyzing the mechanics of the script itself.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
          And since JimL and tassman ally themselves with ILGA, they're supporters of pedophilia as well.
          Absolutely, so next time Jimmy gets on this kick....
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            You really are an idiot Tass.

            I provided a slew of quotes from prominent gay leaders who were none too happy about IGLA sacrificing their allies for their own gain. That wasn't my spin but their words. Since I've posted this two or three times in this very thread it is patently obvious you never bothered to once read those posts yet idiotically keep demanding that I provide their "actual words."
            The fact, which you seem intent upon overlooking, is that at its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and there have been no moves to reinstate it to LGLA. It’s hard to believe that people are still trying to use the purported but erroneous link between pedophilia and homosexuality to further their own religion-based agenda against LGBT’s.

            And IGLA only disassociated themselves from NAMBLA after a decade long association when it became politically necessary -- not because they disagreed with them.
            Of course! We all know that homosexuals are all closet pedophiles.
            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
              The fact, which you seem intent upon overlooking, is that at its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and there have been no moves to reinstate it to LGLA
              The FACTS that you keep overlooking are that it wasn't until 1994, and it wasn't unanimous, and it was motivated by their desire to be approved as an NGO. In addition, their story about how NAMBLA became acceptable to them is "my dog ate my homework" material.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                The fact, which you seem intent upon overlooking, is that at its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and there have been no moves to reinstate it to LGLA. It’s hard to believe that people are still trying to use the purported but erroneous link between pedophilia and homosexuality to further their own religion-based agenda against LGBT’s.
                I see you're still refusing to look at how several prominent gay leaders reacted to NAMBLA being expelled. And how they were still being invited to participate in gay pride parades even after IGLA kicked them out of their's, disinviting NAMBLA's founder who was slated to be the keynote speaker. I guess that's the only way you can continue to pretend it's nothing but my spin.

                It took them a full decade to suddenly notice what NAMBLA was all about. Until then they had a close working relationship and they were a member in good standing of ILGA.

                And IGLA only decided to boot them out after they sought consultative status with the United Nations, had been accepted but then were suspended when their close relationship with NAMBLA was discovered. NAMBLA's expulsion had absolutely nothing to do with being repulsed by what they promoted and everything to do with political expediency.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Read The Taming of the Shrew. It really is quite hilarious.
                  I didn't particularly care for that one. One thing in particular that is annoying with that play is that the framing device of the whole thing (it being a play presented to a drunkard who's been tricked into thinking he's actually really rich) is completely forgotten after the first act and there is no resolution to it.

                  Funniest Shakespeare comedy is The Comedy of Errors, though I feel that one, perhaps more than any other Shakespeare play, really needs to be seen to be properly enjoyed.

                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  It never made sense to me to read something something that was intended to be watched, unless you're analyzing the mechanics of the script itself.
                  Well, in the case of Shakespeare, reading it can make it more comprehensible. The plays were written more than 500 years ago and a lot of the language has changed, making some lines extremely confusing if you don't understand it and some of the wordplay easy to miss. If you watch a play they can't really just stop to explain things, but reading the script gives you footnotes to define obscure words or phrases. For example, if you don't know what "carry coals" was a figure of speech for and what a "collier" is, then the whole joke in the first two lines of Romeo and Juliet gets missed. Actually, that whole conversation is pretty much nothing but a series of puns that are hard to get if you don't have the meanings available.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    I see you're still refusing to look at how several prominent gay leaders reacted to NAMBLA being expelled. And how they were still being invited to participate in gay pride parades even after IGLA kicked them out of their's, disinviting NAMBLA's founder who was slated to be the keynote speaker. I guess that's the only way you can continue to pretend it's nothing but my spin.

                    It took them a full decade to suddenly notice what NAMBLA was all about. Until then they had a close working relationship and they were a member in good standing of ILGA.

                    And IGLA only decided to boot them out after they sought consultative status with the United Nations, had been accepted but then were suspended when their close relationship with NAMBLA was discovered. NAMBLA's expulsion had absolutely nothing to do with being repulsed by what they promoted and everything to do with political expediency.
                    Sigh!

                    The International Lesbian and Gay Association is a member organisation comprising some 400 national LGBT groups in more than 90 countries. It is a leading advocate for the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people worldwide. Each group is independent and self governing and NAMBLA was but one small, self-governing member. At its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and two other organizations, which were considered antipathetical to its cause.

                    End of story.

                    Your attempt to link ILGA to pedophilia on the basis of NAMBLA's one time membership of ILGA is incorrect and dishonest. There is no link between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophiles are no more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual...although, given that the majority of pedophile victims are young girls suggests that, if anything, the latter prevails. NB Judge Roy Moore and his 14 y.o. girl and apparent fondness for very young girls. .
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      End of story.
                      One can pretty much 'take it to the bank' that when you say "end of story", it's not at all.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        Sigh!

                        The International Lesbian and Gay Association is a member organisation comprising some 400 national LGBT groups in more than 90 countries. It is a leading advocate for the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people worldwide. Each group is independent and self governing and NAMBLA was but one small, self-governing member. At its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and two other organizations, which were considered antipathetical to its cause.

                        End of story.

                        Your attempt to link ILGA to pedophilia on the basis of NAMBLA's one time membership of ILGA is incorrect and dishonest. There is no link between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophiles are no more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual...although, given that the majority of pedophile victims are young girls suggests that, if anything, the latter prevails. NB Judge Roy Moore and his 14 y.o. girl and apparent fondness for very young girls. .
                        "The story" obviously is not ended....

                        This is Google's cache of http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/n...ga.secretariat. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 13, 2017 00:58:25 GMT.
                        The current page could have changed in the meantime.

                        Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 21:02:41 -0500
                        From: Roy Radow <roy@panix.com>
                        Subject: NAMBLA Replies to ILGA Secretariat (Revised)


                        Dear Tommy-tom,

                        Please replace the NAMBLA-ILGA statement which currently appears
                        in the QRD with this revised statement. Thanks.



                        NAMBLA has been a member of the International Lesbian and Gay
                        Association for 10 years. We've been continuously active in ILGA longer
                        than any other US organization. NAMBLA delegates to ILGA helped write
                        ILGA's constitution, its official positions on the sexual rights of
                        youth, and its stands against sexual coercion and corporal punishment.
                        We are proud of our contributions in making ILGA a stronger voice for the
                        international gay and lesbian movement and for sexual justice.

                        In spite of this proud history, four of ILGA's six secretariats,
                        meeting in New York, November 5-7, have request NAMBLA to resign and stated
                        that they will seek its expulsion by the general membership this summer
                        unless it complies. This small administrative body individuals issued press
                        releases on November 7 stating that ILGA "condemns pedophilia" and that
                        NAMBLA's "political aims... are in direct contradiction" to those of ILGA.
                        In particular, the statement cites NAMBLA's opposition to age-of-consent
                        laws as a tool for protecting young people from sexual coercion.

                        These statements by the secretariats' committee are a craven and
                        dishonest attempt to satisfy demands by the US Mission to the UN. On
                        October 16, the US Mission's Bisa Williams-Manigault sent a letter to
                        ILGA stating that the US will seek ILGA's removal from the UN's Economic
                        and Social Council (ECOSOC) unless ILGA "dissociate[s] itself from NAMBLA
                        and other affiliate organizations whose objectives," in the opinion of the
                        US government, "are not consonant with UN human rights activities." In
                        addition, Williams-Manigault has told the press that to meet US demands,
                        ILGA would have to expel at least two other organizations. The Dutch
                        Vereniging Martijn and a US group called Project Truth along with any
                        other member organization that has expressed support for NAMBLA's
                        positions.

                        The ILGA secretariats' statement contradicts the positions
                        ILGA has adopted over the course of a decade, and greatly distorts
                        NAMBLA's platform.

                        ILGA's current positions on man/boy love and pedophilia are
                        explicit:

                        -- In 1985, ILGA adopted a position on "Age of Consent/Paedophilia/
                        Children's Rights" that urged member organizations to "lobby their
                        governments to abolish the age of consent law" so long as there is
                        "adequate protection for youth from being sexually abused without
                        the age of consent law."

                        -- In 1986, ILGA adopted a position that says the group "supports
                        the right of young people to sexual and social self-determination."

                        -- In 1988, ILGA declared "this conference recognizes that existing
                        same-sex age-of-consent laws often operate to oppress and not to
                        protect; that in many countries, existing laws on sexual coercion
                        and rules of evidence also often operate to oppress and not to
                        protect; that therefore member organizations are urged to consider
                        how best children, adolescents, and people of all ages can be
                        empowered and supported against both sexual coercion and sexual
                        oppression and to work towards that end."

                        -- In 1990, ILGA "calls on all members to treat all sexual
                        minorities with respect and to engage in constructive dialogue
                        with them. In another position adopted that year, ILGA declared
                        that it "supports the right of every individual, regardless of
                        age, to explore and develop her or his sexuality."

                        ILGA has also taken strong stands against sexual coercion. NAMBLA
                        helped write these positions, and our delegates supported them in the General
                        Assembly, contrary to what the ILGA secretariats imply.

                        -- In 1990 ILGA adopted as an official position that "Major power
                        imbalances create the potential for child abuse. ILGA condemns the
                        exploitative use of power differences to coerce others into sexual
                        relationships."


                        Every one of the resolutions cited above was adopted by at least
                        an 80 percent majority of ILGA delegates; many were adopted unanimously.
                        Their status as official ILGA positions is a matter of public record. Not
                        one of these positions has ever been revoked by ILGA's membership, and all
                        have been distributed to the media as recently two months ago by ILGA's
                        Information Secretariat as official positions.

                        NAMBLA fully supports ILGA's efforts to achieve consultative status
                        on the UN's ECOSOC, though we did not play any role in attaining that status.

                        Any attempt to link NAMBLA or ILGA with child abuse is dishonest and
                        malicious. But in an effort to save ILGA's ECOSOC status, one small project
                        of ILGA, its secretariats have taken a dangerous step toward destroying what
                        ILGA is at essence: a diverse, democratic coalition controlled by its members,
                        not a small group of leaders.

                        The following are quotes from NAMBLA position papers adopted at the
                        indicated times by NAMBLA's membership. The reader can determine whether or
                        not an "extreme divergence" exists between the views of NAMBLA and ILGA.

                        "NAMBLA condemns those who exploit children and others for
                        profit and pornography... NAMBLA condemns pornography which furthers
                        racial and sexual stereotypes." [adopted November 11, 1981]

                        "NAMBLA supports economic and racial justice for youth, especially
                        for gay youth, who are often doubly oppressed. Wherever forms of
                        hustling thrive on racial or economic inequality-- especially in
                        third- world countries, where imperialism is involved-- NAMBLA
                        condemns the inequality and imperialism and calls on men and boys to
                        work actively against them." [adopted November 11, 1981]

                        "NAMBLA... calls for the adoption of laws that both protect
                        children from unwanted sexual experiences and at the same time leave
                        them free to determine the content of their own sexual experiences."
                        [adopted December 4, 1983]

                        "NAMBLA has always opposed any form of abuse or coercion... and
                        NAMBLA condemns rape and sexual assault." [adopted December 4, 1983]

                        "Exploitation, sexual or otherwise, is neither approved of nor
                        practiced by NAMBLA. NAMBLA recognizes that exploitation occurs in
                        the area of hustling, and the publication of erotica, and has called
                        on its members to help eliminate exploitation in these areas."
                        [adopted December 4, 1983]

                        "NAMBLA condemns corporal punishment, kidnapping, rape, and
                        sexual exploitation. Participation in corporal punishment, kidnapping,
                        rape, and sexual exploitation is contrary to NAMBLA'S statement of
                        purpose. It is grounds for expulsion from NAMBLA." [adopted December
                        4, 1983]

                        As the above positions detail, NAMBLA has no difficulty supporting
                        in its entirety the 1990 statement of ILGA on the protection of children.
                        We reaffirm our support of that ILGA statement now. NAMBLA believes that
                        the attitude of the 1990 ILGA conference is also shown by the resolution
                        calling on "all members to treat all sexual minorities with respect and to
                        engage in constructive dialog with them."


                        Already, several ILGA activists and member organizations have
                        condemned the secretariats' actions and reaffirmed their support for the
                        participation in ILGA of man/boy lovers. The national German gay coalition
                        Bundesverband Homosexualitat has declared that it is "astonished and
                        embarrassed" at the secretariats' actions. "We are convinced that any
                        attempt to expel NAMBLA and others from ILGA will be rejected by the
                        vast majority of ILGA members," writes BVH executive committee member
                        Wolfram Setz. Another German group, Verein for Sexuelle Gleichberechtigung
                        adds, "The fight for... fundamental human right[s] must not be relinquished
                        or reduced because of the political pressure from any government. Where
                        would we end up if we made concessions in this respect? NAMBLA's objectives
                        are as far we know absolutely in agreement with... the UN declarations of
                        human rights and children's rights."

                        The Secretariats, by their actions, are seeking to transform ILGA
                        from being a "parliament" of the international lesbian and gay movement--
                        a place where real discussion and compromise takes place among groups with
                        varied focuses and approaches-- and instead turn it into a public relations
                        showcase for a few leaders.

                        We value our participation in ILGA in part because of how we
                        ourselves have been challenged and have grown by talking and working
                        with lesbian and gay people with different experiences and perspectives
                        than our own. We have been gratified and encouraged at seeing others
                        change their feelings and perceptions about man/boy love through working
                        with us. Growth and understanding of this kind should continue.

                        ****

                        In Liberation For All,

                        Roy


                        Roy Radow roy@panix.com ...rutgers!cmcl2!panix!roy
                        North American Man/Boy Love Association -For membership info & brochure
                        write to:....
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          "The story" obviously is not ended....

                          This is Google's cache of http://www.qrd.org/qrd/orgs/NAMBLA/n...ga.secretariat. It is a snapshot of the page as it appeared on Nov 13, 2017 00:58:25 GMT.

                          The current page could have changed in the meantime.
                          Yes the story is ended as far as ILGA and NAMBLA are concerned. Your link says no more than NAMBLA wanted to rejoin ILGA. But, “NAMBLA was expelled in '94 and a series of amendments were voted by ILGA members to ensure groups condoning paedophilia would not be able to become members of the federation. Our federation has not had any such group since 94”.

                          So why do you pretend that there is still a connection?

                          http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrent...-about-nambla/

                          My concern is your ill-conceived efforts to link ILGA to pedophilia on the basis of NAMBLA's one time membership of ILGA. This is incorrect and dishonest. Furthermore, there is no link between pedophilia and homosexuality, despite your best efforts to say there is in order to discredit LGBT's. Pedophiles are no more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual..
                          “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                            Sigh!

                            The International Lesbian and Gay Association is a member organisation comprising some 400 national LGBT groups in more than 90 countries. It is a leading advocate for the rights of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and intersex people worldwide. Each group is independent and self governing and NAMBLA was but one small, self-governing member. At its world conference in New York City in June 1994, ILGA voted 214-30 to expel NAMBLA and two other organizations, which were considered antipathetical to its cause.

                            End of story.

                            Your attempt to link ILGA to pedophilia on the basis of NAMBLA's one time membership of ILGA is incorrect and dishonest. There is no link between pedophilia and homosexuality. Pedophiles are no more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual...although, given that the majority of pedophile victims are young girls suggests that, if anything, the latter prevails. NB Judge Roy Moore and his 14 y.o. girl and apparent fondness for very young girls. .
                            Nobody denies that IGLA eventually kicked them out. But it was after ten years and only for political expediency not because they only suddenly realized that NAMBLA supported pedophilia.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              Yes the story is ended as far as ILGA and NAMBLA are concerned. Your link says no more than NAMBLA wanted to rejoin ILGA. But, “NAMBLA was expelled in '94 and a series of amendments were voted by ILGA members to ensure groups condoning paedophilia would not be able to become members of the federation. Our federation has not had any such group since 94”.

                              So why do you pretend that there is still a connection?

                              http://www.patheos.com/blogs/warrent...-about-nambla/

                              My concern is your ill-conceived efforts to link ILGA to pedophilia on the basis of NAMBLA's one time membership of ILGA. This is incorrect and dishonest. Furthermore, there is no link between pedophilia and homosexuality, despite your best efforts to say there is in order to discredit LGBT's. Pedophiles are no more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual..
                              It isn't about whether there is a link between homosexuality and pedophilia but rather that there was an indisputable link between the gay rights movement and pedophilia.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                It isn't about whether there is a link between homosexuality and pedophilia but rather that there was an indisputable link between the gay rights movement and pedophilia.
                                A link that was brought to an end in 1994, when ILGA severed ties to NAMBLA and any groups condoning pedophilia!
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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