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The Redemption of the Pagan

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  • The Redemption of the Pagan

    What can be redeemed?

    The link can be found here.

    -----

    Should we be concerned if something has a pagan origin? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    It's that time of year again. Halloween is going to be here in a few weeks and what's being said about that? Pagan. Just yesterday a friend shared with me that a well-known Christian apologist is sharing a bogus meme from Anton Lavey that I wrote about last year. Unfortunately, there's no evidence we've seen that the quote comes from LaVey, but oh well.*

    Before too long, it will be Christmas. What will people be saying about that in Christian circles? That's right. Pagan.*

    You know, for people who seem to want to be wary of anything that has to do with magic, pagan is thrown around like it's a magic word to get people to have nothing to do with whatever is in question.

    A lot of people do this with the devil as well. Feeling tempted? There's one reason. Satan! The devil is going after you! The problem with this is that it assumes unknowingly that if the devil was removed from the picture, that you would not have a sinful human nature that would be tempted. You would live your life sin-free if only the devil wasn't constantly on your shoulder. It's also interesting that it's always the devil. It's never a low-ranking demon or something like that. We practically treat the devil as omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent when we do this.

    Many of us know enough of our own nature. If we were absolutely convinced the devil or demons were not tempting us, we would still be tempted. If we want to know why we're tempted to sin, the devil isn't the problem. We are the problem. We have a sinful nature.*

    Let's start talking though about this problem with paganism. One aspect of Christianity is that God did not come into this world to save sinners, although He certainly did that. He came into this world to save the world. He wanted to redeem everything. The world is His creation. He wants to save it and rule it all.

    That includes every day of the calendar. That includes every culture. There is nothing in this world that God does not intend to rule. When we go into a pagan culture, we seek to redeem everything then. As the hymn says, this is our Father's world.*

    In fact, if you think that you should avoid anything that has the taint of evil on it supposedly, then look in the mirror. Your origins Biblically aren't the best. We were once slaves to sin and death reigned over us. Think you can get much better than that? We are now a new creation in Christ.*

    Redeeming a culture is child's play to what it took to redeem us. It took the death of the Son of God. When we act like something is irredeemable because of its origins, then we have a hard time with ourselves. Ultimately, I don't care what a pagan intended to do with XYZ. I care about why I do it.*

    Christians. Please stop living in fear. Just stop it. Christ came so that you could be victorious. There's no need to be cowering. Don't give the devil more power than he has. Christ defeated Him 2,000 years ago. Start living in victory today.

    And once again, if you must share something, please check up on it. In fact, just now, my friend Jeff Harshbarger commented on this story. What he did was something odd. He actually sought out the source material himself. (Yeah. Bizarre thought. Who knew?) Here's the result.

    Re: Contact Form Submission from the Church of Satan Website

    Administration <administration@churchofsatan.com>*
    To
    far468@bellsouth.net*
    Today at 1:43 PM*
    No. Since Satanism is not devil worship, LaVey would not say such a thing.

    On 10/8/17, 12:21 PM, "Church of Satan" <administration@churchofsatan.com> wrote:

    Name: Jeff Harshbarger

    Email: far468@bellsouth.net

    Comments: Did Dr. LaVey actually make this statement? I'm glad that
    Christian parents let their children worship the devil at least one
    night out of the year.
    Please be living in truth people. Do that, and you have no need to fear. Yes. It's something we all still have to work on. Check your history when making a historical claim and remember, if God can redeem you, who knows what else He can redeem.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    Amen and Amen!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Humans have this idea of us putting things in their heads. In reality our best work is done by keeping things out.
      Screwtape.

      Satan has all ready lost. Oh and if you want proof pagan themes can be redeemed look no further than Marvel comics or C.S Lewis works like Till we have faces a retelling of the essential pagan romance myth.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        This idea that the Church of Satan does not (or at least, did not) worship Satan is more a later development of their views. If you ever watch any old Church of Satan films from the 60s, they clearly do ceremonies where they worship Satan and then discuss what that means to them. Many of the Church of Satan Satanists in the 60s through to the 80s believed in a supernatural Satanism. They weren't all atheists, though atheists and agnostics seem to make up most of the Church's members now. I think Levay himself probably started off as a supernaturalist, and then when his magic didn't seem to work, he eventually became an atheist. Or he was a showman who used the trapping of supernatural Satanism to draw people to him, and stopped claiming it was real when that no longer proved effectual. I used to talk to an ex-Satanist (Eva O from Christian Death) a bit, and she rubs shoulders with Levay's kids, and she absolutely 100% believed in a supernatural Satan, and believed she was communing with demons when she was a Satanist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          This idea that the Church of Satan does not (or at least, did not) worship Satan is more a later development of their views. If you ever watch any old Church of Satan films from the 60s, they clearly do ceremonies where they worship Satan and then discuss what that means to them. Many of the Church of Satan Satanists in the 60s through to the 80s believed in a supernatural Satanism. They weren't all atheists, though atheists and agnostics seem to make up most of the Church's members now. I think Levay himself probably started off as a supernaturalist, and then when his magic didn't seem to work, he eventually became an atheist. Or he was a showman who used the trapping of supernatural Satanism to draw people to him, and stopped claiming it was real when that no longer proved effectual. I used to talk to an ex-Satanist (Eva O from Christian Death) a bit, and she rubs shoulders with Levay's kids, and she absolutely 100% believed in a supernatural Satan, and believed she was communing with demons when she was a Satanist.
          I tend to agree with the "showman" aspect -- I don't think he really bought what he was selling.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            So an edgelord?
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Santa. Satan? Coincidence? I think NOT!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Triumphant reclamation for the win!
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm very uncomfortable with Halloween based on personal past spiritual experience, but I don't expect anybody else to find that convincing. Suffice it to say that I think modern Christians way underestimate the demon world.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hallowe'en is not an especially compelling case for the "redemption of the pagan". While trick-or-treating seems pretty much harmless (if over-commercialized), there is pretty much nothing whatsoever "Christian" about the holiday. Aside from a smattering of Catholics, who celebrates All Saints' Day?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I say shame evil by reducing halloween to candy and cute costumes!
                      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                      Comment

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