Story of gay family...just want to share

[Rahab]

Today @ 07:30 PM post located here
Paul:



It can be contained in even fewer words, namely certain two that appear in the title of this thread.

Are you refering to the terms "gay family"?
I will ask you the same question I asked Muzikman earlier.... but word it differently.

A gay couple seeking adoption of any child. A pregnant woman is on her way to an abortion clinic. Which destination do you prefer to see the child go?

[bar Jonah]

A man murdered... or a man tortured but left alive... which would you rather see?

How does that make the equation any different?

[Rahab]

Today @ 09:42 PM post located here
RightIdea:

A man murdered... or a man tortured but left alive... which would you rather see?

How does that make the equation any different?

You actualy compare a child adopted by a gay couple as being tortured? you have got to be kidding!

Do you realize that your statement implies that a child raised by a gay couple in undergoing torture?
You can dislike gay folks and disapprove of their lifestyle but to paint them as parents who can only inflict torture to their adopted child is totaly inflammatory.
Now right Idea.... please tell me you did not think this thru.

[Trout]

Rahab:

You actualy compare a child adopted by a gay couple as being tortured? you have got to be kidding!

Do you realize that your statement implies that a child raised by a gay couple in undergoing torture?
You can dislike gay folks and disapprove of their lifestyle but to paint them as parents who can only inflict torture to their adopted child is totaly inflammatory.
Now right Idea.... please tell me you did not think this thru.

Rahab, you have offered two horrible choices as has Right Idea.

Kind of like asking Right Idea if he has stopped beating his wife yet. There is no good way to answer either question.

You are asking him to choose between two sinful situations. He is asking you to do the same. So what's your answer?

[Paul]

Being raised by a gay couple is actually worse than torture. Torture afflicts the body and causes psychological impairment. The corruption of the morals of a child however is something that is of a different order. Jesus says that it is better for a person to be thrown in the sea with a millstone around his neck than for him to corrupt the morals of a child or lead a child astray.

[Rahab]

Today @ 10:39 PM post located here
troutk13:



Rahab, you have offered two horrible choices as has Right Idea.

Kind of like asking Right Idea if he has stopped beating his wife yet. There is no good way to answer either question.

You are asking him to choose between two sinful situations. He is asking you to do the same. So what's your answer?

I do not consider the choice of a child being offered a parent as a sin. You consider and evaluate the chance to have a parent who is not conformed to your moral definition of a family to be a "horrible" choice. I do not. It is inflammatory to demean the parental potential and nurturing of a gay couple simply because they are gay and compare then to criminals.
Murder is a crime. Torturing a human being is also punishable as a crime by the law. Adoption by a gay couple is not considered a crime in our society.
Do you have any problems differenciating between crime and sin?

I do not accept his comparaison.

What you view as a crime against a child, I view as the best option to give an unwanted baby the right to live in my quostion to Right Idea. Are you becoming selective as to adoption being a mean to reduce the rate of abortion of 1.5 million unborn in the US?
Not so pro life after all......

[Rahab]

Today @ 10:48 PM post located here
Paul:

Being raised by a gay couple is actually worse than torture. Torture afflicts the body and causes psychological impairment. The corruption of the morals of a child however is something that is of a different order. Jesus says that it is better for a person to be thrown in the sea with a millstone around his neck then for him to corrupt the morals of a child or lead a child astray.

ok.... here is another death wish on homosexuals who will to adopt. That is what your quote implies since you apply it to gay people and assimilate them as "corrupting the morals of a child or lead the child astray".
How some of you folks can make such statements publicaly without reasoning on the implications is beyond my comprehension.
And we protest that the gay community views christians as a threat to their welfare and safety while giving them the lip service of " oh we only hate your sin but we love you....."
The true state of mind of homophobic christians who claim to love the sinner seems to come out of the closet.

[Trout]

Rahab:

I do not consider the choice of a child being offered a parent as a sin. You consider and evaluate the chance to have a parent who is not conformed to your moral definition of a family to be a "horrible" choice. I do not. It is inflammatory to demean the parental potential and nurturing of a gay couple simply because they are gay and compare then to criminals.
Murder is a crime. Torturing a human being is also punishable as a crime by the law. Adoption by a gay couple is not considered a crime in our society.
Do you have any problems differenciating between crime and sin?

Abortion isn't a crime, so following your logic, it must not be a sin.

[Rahab]

Today @ 11:30 PM post located here
troutk13:




Abortion isn't a crime, so following your logic, it must not be a sin.

As usual Troutk you intervene in a thread to misrepresent the thoughts of a member you know to not be conformed to your personal theology and morals. You also deviate the thread from the original subject...... which is the right of parenting for gay people. I have seen only homophobic statements supporting the claim that adoption by gay people is a "horror" a "crime" " a torture" and according to Paul's assimilation of gay people into the category of corrupting the morals of a child and leading him astray in their parenting, worthy of death by drowning.

Cool! and you dare to question my upholding adoption as the mean to reduce the abortion rate?
Now about corrupting the morals of any child..... I certainly hope that none of you who nurture such hateful thoughts against gay people ( the sinner you are supposed to love) will not plant in the minds of your own children that gay people are worthy of death by drowning and ought to be considered as criminals and dealt as such.

[Trout]

Rahab:

As usual Troutk you intervene in a thread to misrepresent the thoughts of a member you know to not be conformed to your personal theology and morals.

Rahab:
You also deviate the thread from the original subject...... which is the right of parenting for gay people.

You asked a question that has no good answer.
Here's mine;Which would be a better moral choice to be adoptive parents, a Christian married male and female couple, or a homosexual couple?

Rahab:
I have seen only homophobic statements supporting the claim that adoption by gay people is a "horror" a "crime" " a torture" and according to Paul's assimilation of gay people into the category of corrupting the morals of a child and leading him astray in their parenting, worthy of death by drowning.

And as usual, you bring into the mix your own blend of Christophobia.

Rahab:
Cool! and you dare to question my upholding adoption as the mean to reduce the abortion rate?

So if we don't have adoptive couples ready and waiting for every unwanted pregnancy, it's okay for the mothers to kill their children?
So, do you think abortion is a sin? If so what sin is it?

Rahab:
Now about corrupting the morals of any child..... I certainly hope that none of you who nurture such hateful thoughts against gay people ( the sinner you are supposed to love) will not plant in the minds of your own children that gay people are worthy of death by drowning and ought to be considered as criminals and dealt as such.

Do you think that homosexuality is a sin? If so, is it wrong to teach our children that homosexuality is a sin?

[Rahab]

[QUOTE]Today @ 12:02 AM post located here
troutk13:





MY ANSWER : you ought to know your pattern by now.



You asked a question that has no good answer.
Here's mine;Which would be a better moral choice to be adoptive parents, a Christian married male and female couple, or a homosexual couple?

MY ANSWER : which leaves out non christian married male and female and single individuals. Oh how much is actualy coming out of the closet of your mind!
My choice would not be based on a moral choice led by religious beliefs of any religious background..... it would be based on the best equipped couple to provide nurturing and welfare for the child. I hope you do realize that folks who work on adoption files and investigates potential adopting parents do not make it a criteria that the family has to be a CHRISTIAN couple. Non christians have equal access to the adoption process. Like it or not.




And as usual, you bring into the mix your own blend of Christophobia.

MY ANSWER : another comment loaded with inflammatory implications. You are confused by the fact that Paul interpreted Christ's words to be applied to homosexuals who wish to parent an unwanted child. Call my stance "homophobiaphobia" from now on and try to be more secure in your faith by accepting that not all christians abide to your personal doctrine. You are going to have to spend eternity with us. Unless of course you intend to argue with God as you will "face" so many of us who differ from you.



So if we don't have adoptive couples ready and waiting for every unwanted pregnancy, it's okay for the mothers to kill their children?
So, do you think abortion is a sin? If so what sin is it?

MY ANSWER : what a clumsy way to twist a thought expressed to bring forth the importance of promoting adoption as an alternative to abortion! you have never heard of that concept before? where have you been all the years during which volunteers who serve in pro life crisis pregnancy centers have been suggesting to pregnant women who contemplate an abortion to consider giving up their child for adoption instead? while some rant and rave about abortion being murder..... other are actualy promoting alternatives.


Do you think that homosexuality is a sin? If so, is it wrong to teach our children that homosexuality is a sin

MY ANSWER :
I do not consider homosexuality to be a a lesser or greater sin than teaching children hatred ideologies leading to the mistreatment of other human beings. It is wrong to promote hate in the mind of any child. Rigtheous anger if you will. But not hatred.

Time for me to see if you are capable of answering any questions or if your pattern of asking questions and dismissing those addressed to you is still part of your monologue mode of communication.

How will you teach your child to treat homosexuals?

[Trout]

Rahab:
How will you teach your child to treat homosexuals?

What I've taught my children regarding homosexuals is quite simple, I've told them that homosexuality is sin, and sexual sin seems to harm the character of the individual more so than some other types of sin do.

I've also taught my children that abortion is sin, as is lying, stealing, fornication, adultery, disrespecting their mother among many others.

And that all those who don't know Christ are destined for a place called hell, which is the most horrible destination that can ever be imagined. And that one of our greatest honors as Christians is to share the love of Christ with those in need.

My youngest volunteers at our local CPC once a week and also at the Salvation Army thrift store once a week, where he is developing his love for those in need of Christ no matter what their background may be.

I'm also teaching my children that it's OK to call certain behaviors wrong, such as homosexuality. And that it's better sometimes to offend someone rather than allow them to remain convinced that the homosexual lifestyle is in harmony with God's will.

[Lazy Agnostic]

Today @ 07:49 PM post located here
troutk13:
sexual sin seems to harm the character of the individual more so than some other types of sin do.

Do you have proof of that---or is it perhaps a bit of projection?

And that all those who don't know Christ are destined for a place called hell, which is the most horrible destination that can ever be imagined.

"Believe-it-or-ELSE!"

And that one of our greatest honors as Christians is to share the love of Christ with those in need.

By telling them that homosexuals should be killed before they be allowed to adopt?

My youngest volunteers at our local CPC once a week and also at the Salvation Army thrift store once a week, where he is developing his love for those in need of Christ no matter what their background may be.

I certainly applaud that. Would that more Christians devote time to noble endeavors. If done, though, for the purpose of procuring a captive audience, it is an exercise-in-ego.

it's better sometimes to offend someone rather than allow them to remain convinced that the homosexual lifestyle is in harmony with God's will.

Thank God for the ACLU.

[NEONBlack]

I find it all well and good, Queen--and especially Rahab--that you seem to seek the well-being of the children.

Yet you overlook some very fundamental flaws in both the article and your own statements.

I realize that none of this is supposed to be a "debate," per se, or it was not intended to be at least, but there is too much being left unsaid for me to let it go. If this means I get moderated, so be it.

Being a younger man (early 20's) and the youth minister in my church, I have had direct interaction with abortion, adoption and foster families. I find it interesting that you keep using the extreme option of abortion versus being in a homosexual family. I completely agree with you that it is better to be in a loving family than dead. Not a hard choice, there. Yet you seem to think that it is only single people or homosexual (I refuse to grant them the "g-word" euphemism) seek adoption. The fact is that there remains thousands of married heterosexual people who cannot, for one reason or another, have children who seek only to provide for those children who are "unwanted."

This, also, is a fundamental flaw in assumption. Many young women who find themselves with children do not see them as "unwanted." They simply realize there is no way they can provide for them but, through post-modern thinking, the child isn't really a child until some undetermined point in the future. For that moment, it is simply a fetus that can be aborted. Here is one of our first losses as Christians.

(One side note--simply because we disagree on an issue does not mean I automatically think I am Christian and you are not ... we all must find Christ's footsteps! )

Our youth learn that homosexuality is acceptable because either it is a biological necessity (a fallacy and lie in my opinion) or we cannot judge them because it is their personal "lifestyle choice." (So I'm not allowed to judge a deadbeat dad or drug-abusing mother? It's their "lifestyle choice." We can't take away children from a pedophile? It's his or her "lifestyle choice.")

Too often we overlook the fact that many people are opening their homes to these foster children who have led truly unfair lives that no child should ever be exposed to, in America especially. The reason I still cannot bring myself to believe that homosexual couples can be good parents (independent of gender roles--I'll get to that in a bit) is because they are openly accepting a sinful aspect of their lives and promoting it to others.

If I was a consciously pathological liar, would I be a good father? If I happened to like eating human flesh, would I be a very good example as a father? Everything from serial murder to embezzling from a company is a "lifestyle choice." While, yes, these are crimes, they are comparable in the Father's eyes. I consider homosexuality as bad as murdering a child (in the case of abortion) and also as bad as telling a little white lie.

ALL sin disappoints God. This is a fact we too often forget.

The last thing I wanted to say is that, yes, a daddy can cook, clean and sew while mommy is a high-powered lawyer. Or vice-versa. However, no man actually is a woman (and don't even mention surgery! ); similarly, no woman will ever be a man. Any child raised only by two people of either gender will still not be exposed to a truly good (or bad) example of what that gender is like. You don't even have to look to homosexual families; you mentioned single parents. Look at those girls who have a son and raise them with the help of their single grandmother--they still lack a truly good example of their gender. I'm not saying that this scars a child for a lifetime but simply that our bodies and minds are built to be shaped by those who raise us.

As for single parents ... they are a tragic extension of the degradation of our world. I do not look down upon them or judge them--but I do feel sorry for them, not in a negative way, however. No parent or child should have to live in a family where there is only one father or one mother. God, in the Bible, established the family unit as a fulfillment of a man's and woman's love. He never said it was "one person's love and sexual passion for another person, regardless of gender."

These are my simple opinions.

[ajohnson]

Here, here! Well said.

regards