Should all pastors be scholars?

[Sparko]

It does?

I guess if you are trying to read "that rule well" as implying that some don't.

1 Timothy 5:17New International Version (NIV)
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

[Cow Poke]

I guess if you are trying to read "that rule well" as implying that some don't.

1 Timothy 5:17New International Version (NIV)
17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

Yeah, I think that's somewhat of a leap. I think it implies some do better than others, but not necessarily that some are "bad teachers".

Following the logic, if the better teachers are worth "double honor", then the "regular" teachers are at least worthy of "some honor". Bad teachers wouldn't be.

[Obsidian]

The ones who don't labor in the word are the bad ones.

[Cow Poke]

The ones who don't labor in the word are the bad ones.

Doesn't say that. That's a very narrow judgmental interpretation.

[KingsGambit]

FYI my understanding is that Paul is talking about monetary compensation for pastors when he talks about honor/double honor.

[Cow Poke]

FYI my understanding is that Paul is talking about monetary compensation for pastors when he talks about honor/double honor.

That's a reasonable assumption, so why would he be in favor of paying "bad teachers" anything at all. (not aimed at you, of course)

On the contrary, I think he was saying we should reward excellence.

[KingsGambit]

That's a reasonable assumption, so why would he be in favor of paying "bad teachers" anything at all. (not aimed at you, of course)

On the contrary, I think he was saying we should reward excellence.

I haven't taught in over two years It wasn't for me.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, Christians have this strange habit I've mentioned before where we go too far one way or the other. Christian Fundamentalism grew out of the idea that over-edumacation had effectively turned Bible scholars into a bunch of ivory tower snobs who lost the heart of the gospel for all their scholarly knowledge.

There were actually several studies that demonstrated that the more education one received, the less they believed in the non-negotiables. But, yeah, that can be taken way too far.

There are a number of congregations kickin around that not only are pastored by people with little to no education, but are actively distrustful of education. This opens the way for all sorts of heretical teaching that comes from a plain reading of a King James Bible, or finds heterodox clergy thinking themselves scholars for occasionally using a Strong's concordance. And of course, there are heavily formal high churches where the clergy are all knowed up, who really have lost the heart of the Gospel for all their deep noodling on theology, and ecclesiology, and what not. There's a middle way between the two, but finding a church that finds that middle way can be hard going. I've been to every type of church out there, and some lean closer to that middle way than others, but I've yet to find one that hits the mark. I've learned, instead, to try to get something out of any place I go.

[Cow Poke]

I haven't taught in over two years It wasn't for me.

But it puts me in mind of our current secular education system in which compensation comes almost entirely by seniority (or who you know) and not by performance.

We do, indeed, have "bad teachers" being compensated the same or better than teachers who excel.

[Thoughtful Monk]

1 Corinthians 13 makes it clear that knowledge in itself is useless. Love is essential. I guess my question could be better stated, "is compassion enough on its own, or is education also necessary?"

However, the passage does support that knowledge with love is useful. I get uncomfortable with trying to create a chasm between knowledge and Christianity. After all, when Jesus gives His "You should love the Lord your God with all your...", mind appears in all 3 (Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27). For me, the use of the word mind includes knowledge and education.

[QuantaFille]

However, the passage does support that knowledge with love is useful. I get uncomfortable with trying to create a chasm between knowledge and Christianity. After all, when Jesus gives His "You should love the Lord your God with all your...", mind appears in all 3 (Matthew 22:37; Mark 12:30; Luke 10:27). For me, the use of the word mind includes knowledge and education.

I don't disagree. But love is the primary requirement, with education after that. I personally feel that a lot of pastors don't have enough education. But how much is enough? How little is too little?

[Cow Poke]

Playing off of "what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul", what good is Pastor who has great knowledge or learning, yet cannot point people to the saving Grace of Jesus?

But, yeah, it's not "either / or".

[KingsGambit]

I should have mentioned my brother in law in my earlier post. He is an ordained minister who has conducted same sex marriages. He has indicated that he thinks the Holy Spirit told him that what he was doing was right. It's interesting; he's the intellectual type who's probably read more religious books than I will in my life, but ultimately, his feelings were the ultimate clinching argument for him.

[Cow Poke]

I should have mentioned my brother in law in my earlier post. He is an ordained minister who has conducted same sex marriages. He has indicated that he thinks the Holy Spirit told him that what he was doing was right. It's interesting; he's the intellectual type who's probably read more religious books than I will in my life, but ultimately, his feelings were the ultimate clinching argument for him.

Yeah, some local pastors of some of the biggest mainstream (liberal) churches decided that God told them that Islam was as valid as Christianity, because "we're all climbing the same mountain", just from different directions.

And I'm sure they're aware of the fact that Jesus is recorded as saying HE is the only way. It is much more PC, however, to be "inclusive".

[Thoughtful Monk]

"is compassion enough on its own?"

No.

As a Christian, I am called to be compassionate. Indeed I am called to the higher standard to love my neighbor. Compassion and love are related but they not the same. As I work through love and get past the shallow meanings like "I love my car. I love steak.", I've realized how much depth their is to love and its not as easy as it may portrayed.

Unfortunately, compassion by itself is inadequate. Compassion may get you to say "you love each other so gay marriage is ok." Compassion may get you to say "your life has a lot of pain, I'll help you end it" or "your life has a lot pain, I'll end it for you." Compassion may cause you to aid someone's earthly needs and ignore their eternal destiny. I believe God has set rules for what is allowed or not allowed and compassion may cause you to break the rules that even good intensions don't excuse.

I wish compassion was enough on its own. I just can't see it being so.