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Should all pastors be scholars?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
    I don't disagree. But love is the primary requirement, with education after that. I personally feel that a lot of pastors don't have enough education. But how much is enough? How little is too little?
    Love of God is a better primary requirement. A pastor needs to be ready to please God and displease people as necessary.

    Basics to me would be along the lines of: the nature of God, creation, the Fall and Original sin, the necessity of salvation and salvation is the gift of God, the Incarnation, service as a response to God's working in our lives.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
      There has to be some level of these things. A lot of this thread has emphasized the over-taught and ineffective pastor. Having lived through a under taught and ineffective pastor who was known to teach heresy, I'm a little suspicious of low education pastors.

      To be fair, I guess it comes down to the level of education is not an indicator of how effective a man will be as a pastor. It all comes down to the man.

      I will also add I've encountered more pastors who after some experience with them I determine they have no business being in the pulpit than people I've known who I thought should be pastors who weren't. The world would probably be better off with fewer pastors.
      For some reason, this came to mind today and I realized I should amend the middle sentence.

      To be fair, I guess it comes down to the level of education is not an indicator of how effective a man will be as a pastor. However, where he gets his education may be indicative.
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #48
        "Add to your faith, virtue, and to your virtue, knowledge ..."

        But that's just scripture, so what does it matter?
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          "Add to your faith, virtue, and to your virtue, knowledge ..."

          But that's just scripture, so what does it matter?
          Peter is addressing that to all believers, not just pastors.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Peter is addressing that to all believers, not just pastors.
            At the risk of going off topic, the believer needs to have enough knowledge to determine if the pastor is teaching rightly.

            One the many sad sights at the final judgment are going to be the people who say "I was under the teaching of Pastor X" and Jesus responding, "I never knew him and I don't know you either."
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              At the risk of going off topic, the believer needs to have enough knowledge to determine if the pastor is teaching rightly.

              One the many sad sights at the final judgment are going to be the people who say "I was under the teaching of Pastor X" and Jesus responding, "I never knew him and I don't know you either."
              Well, it's not quite so simple. I agree that "I was under Pastor X" is a rather thin excuse at the White Throne. However, a multitude of people have espoused heretical beliefs because they leaned on scripture and their own understanding thereof. Catechism is not unimportant. Many, if not most, Protestant churches baptize those who say the 'sinner's prayer', give them a Bible, and expect them to wing it from there. If a person in that situation learns everything he knows from Pastor X's interpretation of the scriptures, unless Pastor X is WAY off, the person can hardly be expected to know any better.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Well, it's not quite so simple. I agree that "I was under Pastor X" is a rather thin excuse at the White Throne. However, a multitude of people have espoused heretical beliefs because they leaned on scripture and their own understanding thereof. Catechism is not unimportant. Many, if not most, Protestant churches baptize those who say the 'sinner's prayer', give them a Bible, and expect them to wing it from there. If a person in that situation learns everything he knows from Pastor X's interpretation of the scriptures, unless Pastor X is WAY off, the person can hardly be expected to know any better.
                Some truth to that, but every church I have been involved with did do Bible studies. I first attended a liberal Lutheran church and the Bible study there led me away from them and to a conservative nondenominational church.
                Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                Comment


                • #53
                  I've always attended some variety or other of Baptist church, and I've only been to one that had an actual systematic theology class. We used Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology as our textbook.
                  All the others I've attended have had much lighter fare. The church I'm in now has a few adult classes that go a little deeper than the sort of thing I classify as "fluff", but nothing as deep as I'd like. I got odd looks for using words like "soteriology" in a question during a Q&A night at my church.
                  Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                    At the risk of going off topic, the believer needs to have enough knowledge to determine if the pastor is teaching rightly.
                    Well, sure.

                    One the many sad sights at the final judgment are going to be the people who say "I was under the teaching of Pastor X" and Jesus responding, "I never knew him and I don't know you either."
                    And Pastor X is going to be in a world of hurt.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I think it's easy to put more emphasis on knowing stuff than doing stuff. We are, in fact, to be doers of the Word and not just hearers. And, yeah, ya gotta know WHAT to do, in order to do it.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Peter is addressing that to all believers, not just pastors.
                        Did I really need to point out that what is true for all believers is even more strongly true for ranking members of the church?
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          Did I really need to point out that what is true for all believers is even more strongly true for ranking members of the church?
                          When you take a verse out of context like that, it would help.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Out of context?
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              Out of context?
                              We were clearly discussing pastors - you posted a verse - actually a fragment of a verse - "Add to your faith, virtue, and to your virtue, knowledge ..." which Peter was addressing to ALL believers, not just Pastors.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Pastors being (presumably - though there are exceptions) believers, they are also intended recipients of that admonition. Being a pastor, I hold myself subject to that same admonition. And the partial quote was the relevant portion.
                                1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                                Scripture before Tradition:
                                but that won't prevent others from
                                taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                                of the right to call yourself Christian.

                                ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                                Comment

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