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Should all pastors be scholars?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I think I've shared this before, but I preached a revival in Kentucky once where I was told quite plainly that "you're either God-called or man-made" as a preacher. Somebody who has been educated is most certainly in the latter category.
    ...but also has a decent probability of being in the former category as well.

    And then you have Al $harpton, who was "ordained" as a child and never edumacated. I rather suspect he's in the latter category too.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Then there's the curious case of the Carpenter of Nazareth...
      ...who was curiously in tune with the Holy Spirit.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #18
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        ...who was curiously in tune with the Holy Spirit.
        Yeah, like ... REALLY in tune!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          ...but also has a decent probability of being in the former category as well.

          And then you have Al $harpton, who was "ordained" as a child and never edumacated. I rather suspect he's in the latter category too.
          I've always wondered what the "Reverend" Jesse Jackson was... um... what was his reverendness about?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
            What level of theological knowledge should be required for someone to be a pastor of a church? Is all that's required a very basic understanding of the gospel, or should they all be at least somewhat conversant in apologetics? Or church history? Or biblical languages?
            There has to be some level of these things. A lot of this thread has emphasized the over-taught and ineffective pastor. Having lived through a under taught and ineffective pastor who was known to teach heresy, I'm a little suspicious of low education pastors.

            To be fair, I guess it comes down to the level of education is not an indicator of how effective a man will be as a pastor. It all comes down to the man.

            I will also add I've encountered more pastors who after some experience with them I determine they have no business being in the pulpit than people I've known who I thought should be pastors who weren't. The world would probably be better off with fewer pastors.
            Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 10-16-2017, 05:55 PM.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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            • #21
              A decent knowledge base is important but with some, say, apologetics topics I think it may do just as well if there's somebody in the church like an elder they can refer somebody to if they're struggling with that issue. All pastors should be able to answer grieving people who ask where God is in their suffering - that one isn't optional.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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              • #22
                1 Corinthians 13 makes it clear that knowledge in itself is useless. Love is essential. I guess my question could be better stated, "is compassion enough on its own, or is education also necessary?"
                Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                  1 Corinthians 13 makes it clear that knowledge in itself is useless. Love is essential. I guess my question could be better stated, "is compassion enough on its own, or is education also necessary?"
                  Yes.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                    1 Corinthians 13 makes it clear that knowledge in itself is useless. Love is essential. I guess my question could be better stated, "is compassion enough on its own, or is education also necessary?"
                    I know it's an old cliche, but here goes anyway... "they don't care what you know til they know that you care".


                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                    • #25
                      On the other hand, some knowledge of how to interpret the Bible is needed to love properly. A number of people have concluded that Christians should condone homosexuality because it's the loving thing to do and God is love. Even the pastor of the church I grew up in has fallen into this trap. Obviously we need to go to the Bible to determine what the loving thing really is here (and this may involve some research because some of the arguments used to defend this nonsense can be clever).
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        This kind of discussion (which I enjoy) reminds me of....
                        Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

                        (I think that verse may be, at least in part, at the heart of what OBP was alluding to)
                        Spending a few years with Jesus has got to be the equivalent of a seminary degree! Minus the actual diploma of course. The 12 apostles didn't get a piece of paper saying that they had learned from the Rabbi Jesus.
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                          There has to be some level of these things. A lot of this thread has emphasized the over-taught and ineffective pastor. Having lived through a under taught and ineffective pastor who was known to teach heresy, I'm a little suspicious of low education pastors.

                          To be fair, I guess it comes down to the level of education is not an indicator of how effective a man will be as a pastor. It all comes down to the man.

                          I will also add I've encountered more pastors who after some experience with them I determine they have no business being in the pulpit than people I've known who I thought should be pastors who weren't. The world would probably be better off with fewer pastors.
                          Yeah, Christians have this strange habit I've mentioned before where we go too far one way or the other. Christian Fundamentalism grew out of the idea that over-edumacation had effectively turned Bible scholars into a bunch of ivory tower snobs who lost the heart of the gospel for all their scholarly knowledge. There are a number of congregations kickin around that not only are pastored by people with little to no education, but are actively distrustful of education. This opens the way for all sorts of heretical teaching that comes from a plain reading of a King James Bible, or finds heterodox clergy thinking themselves scholars for occasionally using a Strong's concordance. And of course, there are heavily formal high churches where the clergy are all knowed up, who really have lost the heart of the Gospel for all their deep noodling on theology, and ecclesiology, and what not. There's a middle way between the two, but finding a church that finds that middle way can be hard going. I've been to every type of church out there, and some lean closer to that middle way than others, but I've yet to find one that hits the mark. I've learned, instead, to try to get something out of any place I go.

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                          • #28
                            Being a pastor is more than knowledge of the bible. An apologist is usually knowledgeable of the bible but is not necessarily a pastor. A pastor is a shepherd, someone who has the gift of leading others, and serving them. Not just teaching, but compassion and caring for them. You can't learn that in college. I think a pastor is called. And once called he has a duty to educate himself. Whether through college or other means is not important.

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                            • #29
                              1 Timothy 5:17
                              Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


                              This implies that it is possible to be a 'pastor,' while also a bad teacher. But it is discouraged.

                              John 21:15-17
                              So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.


                              A pastor means a shepherd. This passage shows that a pastor is basically defined by his job of feeding the sheep -- which refers to teaching.

                              Proverbs 4:7-8
                              Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom:
                              and with all thy getting get understanding.
                              Exalt her, and she shall promote thee:
                              she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.


                              This passage shows that wisdom and knowledge are highly important.

                              Acts 6:2
                              Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.


                              This verse shows that people who serve the poor (something mentioned earlier in the thread) are not actually pastors, but deacons.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                                1 Timothy 5:17
                                Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


                                This implies that it is possible to be a 'pastor,' while also a bad teacher.
                                It does?
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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