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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    So - when does any god other than the Christian god get assigned the proper noun? - apart from when it is the first word in a sentence, that is.
    I don't know, but knowing the beliefs of the Founding Fathers, there's no reasonable argument to be made that the Declaration of Independence is referring to anybody but the Christian God.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Agreed.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        I don't know, but knowing the beliefs of the Founding Fathers, there's no reasonable argument to be made that the Declaration of Independence is referring to anybody but the Christian God.
        "The opening sentence of the Declaration of Independence clarifies: it’s not Yahweh but “Nature’s God.” At the time, this phrase was understood as the deist god of Enlightenment philosophers like Spinoza and Voltaire. Deism was popular in Revolutionary America, and Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, and other founding fathers were either deists or inspired by the movement. Deism imagines a hands-off god, a creator who, once the clock is built and wound up, leaves it to tick by itself.

        The role of this “Creator” is clarified in the Declaration:

        Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
        In other words, the Creator has no role in government".

        http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossex...an-document-2/

        This would explain why there is no reference to God or Jesus in the Constitution itself.
        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          So - when does any god other than the Christian god get assigned the proper noun? - apart from when it is the first word in a sentence, that is.
          Whenever a Jew or Muslim mentions their deity when writing in English.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Roy View Post
            Whenever a Jew or Muslim mentions their deity when writing in English.
            In most cases of English usage Jews would use "G-d*", and Muslims would use "Allah".

            *Or perhaps Adonai.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
              "The opening sentence of the Declaration of Independence clarifies: it’s not Yahweh but “Nature’s God.” At the time, this phrase was understood as the deist god of Enlightenment philosophers like Spinoza and Voltaire. Deism was popular in Revolutionary America, and Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, and other founding fathers were either deists or inspired by the movement. Deism imagines a hands-off god, a creator who, once the clock is built and wound up, leaves it to tick by itself.

              The role of this “Creator” is clarified in the Declaration:

              Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
              In other words, the Creator has no role in government".

              http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossex...an-document-2/

              This would explain why there is no reference to God or Jesus in the Constitution itself.
              A very selective reading.

              Source: The Federalist Papers

              Could Jefferson also have understood the law of nature’s God to be the Laws contained in the Scriptures?

              The answer to that question is a resounding, Yes! Thomas Jefferson was a student of Lord Bolingbroke. He first began studying Bolingbroke’s writings at the age of fourteen, and he read them again at the age of twenty-three as he was preparing for a career as a lawyer. Jefferson’s Literary Commonplace Book contains more quotations from Bolingbroke than from any other author, and I do not know of a single historian who has not given Bolingbroke the credit for Jefferson’s famous phrase regarding “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.” What these scholars keep hidden is the fact that Lord Bolingbroke provided a very specific definition for this phrase.

              In a renowned letter to Alexander Pope, Lord Bolingbroke wrote the following words which were to become the basis for Jefferson’s opening paragraph of the Declaration of Independence:

              “You will find that it is the modest, not the presumptuous enquirer, who makes a real, and safe progress in the discovery of divine truths. One follows nature, and nature’s God; that is, he follows God in his works, and in his word.”

              Here we find a definition from the very individual that all scholars recognize as the source of Jefferson’s phrase. According to Lord Bolingbroke, the law of nature’s God is the Law which is found in God’s Word. This was the definition which was intended by Jefferson, and this was the manner in which his words were understood by our forefathers. The law of nature’s God upon which our nation was founded is nothing less than the Bible itself.

              http://thefederalistpapers.org/curre...of-natures-god

              © Copyright Original Source


              And the role of the Creator is, in fact, fundamental to the notion of self-governance based on the principle that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Without these unalienable rights, the only rule is "survival of the fittest", and there's no basis on which to create a self-governed society.

              But I do like how the Patheos article skips right over the first two sentences of the Declaration of Independence which lay the foundation for everything that follows, and then the author deceptively leaves off the first five-words from part he does quote. Here's how the third sentence of the Declaration of Independence starts, with the words the Patheos author "forgot" to include underlined: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." In other words, if we have no God given rights then there's nothing for us to secure through the institution of government.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                A very selective reading.

                Source: The Federalist Papers

                Could Jefferson also have understood the law of nature’s God to be the Laws contained in the Scriptures?

                The answer to that question is a resounding, Yes! Thomas Jefferson was a student of Lord Bolingbroke. He first began studying Bolingbroke’s writings at the age of fourteen, and he read them again at the age of twenty-three as he was preparing for a career as a lawyer. Jefferson’s Literary Commonplace Book contains more quotations from Bolingbroke than from any other author, and I do not know of a single historian who has not given Bolingbroke the credit for Jefferson’s famous phrase regarding “the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God.” What these scholars keep hidden is the fact that Lord Bolingbroke provided a very specific definition for this phrase.

                In a renowned letter to Alexander Pope, Lord Bolingbroke wrote the following words which were to become the basis for Jefferson’s opening paragraph of the Declaration of Independence:

                “You will find that it is the modest, not the presumptuous enquirer, who makes a real, and safe progress in the discovery of divine truths. One follows nature, and nature’s God; that is, he follows God in his works, and in his word.”

                Here we find a definition from the very individual that all scholars recognize as the source of Jefferson’s phrase. According to Lord Bolingbroke, the law of nature’s God is the Law which is found in God’s Word. This was the definition which was intended by Jefferson, and this was the manner in which his words were understood by our forefathers. The law of nature’s God upon which our nation was founded is nothing less than the Bible itself.

                http://thefederalistpapers.org/curre...of-natures-god

                © Copyright Original Source


                And the role of the Creator is, in fact, fundamental to the notion of self-governance based on the principle that "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Without these unalienable rights, the only rule is "survival of the fittest", and there's no basis on which to create a self-governed society.

                But I do like how the Patheos article skips right over the first two sentences of the Declaration of Independence which lay the foundation for everything that follows, and then the author deceptively leaves off the first five-words from part he does quote. Here's how the third sentence of the Declaration of Independence starts, with the words the Patheos author "forgot" to include underlined: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." In other words, if we have no God given rights then there's nothing for us to secure through the institution of government.
                But but but... he wants SO BADLY to believe otherwise.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  In most cases of English usage Jews would use "G-d*", and Muslims would use "Allah".

                  *Or perhaps Adonai.
                  My Stone Tanakh uses Hashem.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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