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Thread: What does it matter . . . ?

  1. #11
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    What does it matter if what you do not believe happens to be true over against what you actually believe happens not to be true?
    Is that before or after purple?

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Is that before or after purple?
    That depends if you are reading Matthew 27:28 or Mark 15:17.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  3. #13
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    If it is true that what you believe happens is not happening in the true sense of true then you will have to happen to unbelieve the true meaning of happening while the truth is believable. And that's the truth!

    and it is purple. on Wednesdays.

  4. #14
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    If it is true that what you believe happens is not happening in the true sense of true then you will have to happen to unbelieve the true meaning of happening while the truth is believable. And that's the truth!

    and it is purple. on Wednesdays.
    Naw, it was either Friday 14th or Thursday 15th but not in the same year.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    Naw, it was either Friday 14th or Thursday 15th but not in the same year.
    But green cats don't orbit on the weekends, unless you can verify the trees.

  6. #16
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The question comes down to how you are using 'true' or 'truth.' Different religions claim their beliefs are to a certain degree 'true' and there is consequences for not believing them. The problem is there are diverse and conflicting claims for what is 'true' and how 'truth' is defined. The diverse conflicting claims and the consequences of the different religions remains anecdotal and subjective. What standard would you propose that one religion or belief system is true, and the consequences of not believing it is true over the many diverse conflicting other belief systems.

    Is there any reason to believe objectively that any one of these diverse and conflicting claims 'truths' and the consequences of not believing is 'true,' No.

    One the other hand concerning the the objective verifiable knowledge of science, which is consistent and predictable, there are consequences of rejecting the knowledge of science.
    That is the whole point, different claims are made as to what is true. Unless the claimed truth has physical evidence or can be logically deduced that the claim must be true, the mere odds can be against it. Truth is absolute, there is the law of identity, the law of non-contradiction and the law of the excluded middle. So not believing a claimed truth, what would it matter against what one already believes against it?
    Last edited by 37818; 10-25-2017 at 12:51 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  7. #17
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    That is the whole point, different claims are made as to what is true. Unless the claimed truth has physical evidence or can be logically deduced that the claim must be true, the mere odds can be against it. Truth is absolute, there is the law of identity, the law of non-contradiction and the law of the excluded middle. So not believing a claimed truth, what would it matter against what one already believes against it?
    Two points are a problem here. First, objective physical evidence may be used for the process of falsification only, and not to prove nor support a claim of 'truth.' Second logical deduction cannot demonstrate nor prove a claim of truth. Logical deduction involves the construction of sylogisms where the conclusions are not necessarily true, because to be accepted the propositions must be accepted as true. Many sylogisms in apologetic arguments are dependent on propositions that are only accepted by those that believe in the conclusion.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism


    A syllogism (Greek: συλλογισμός syllogismos, "conclusion, inference") is a kind of logical argument that applies deductive reasoning to arrive at a conclusion based on two or more propositions that are asserted or assumed to be true.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  8. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    I never said it does not matter. I ask the question, what does it matter if you do not believe something thst is true?
    I guess what you mean to ask is 'what effect does not believing in something have on one, if that something happens to be true'. Is that right? If so, that would depend, I think, upon whatever the true thing is that isn't believed in. I'm sure you're trying to get at something deeper here, but I'm not sure that either of us knows what that is.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Two points are a problem here. First, objective physical evidence may be used for the process of falsification only, and not to prove nor support a claim of 'truth.' Second logical deduction cannot demonstrate nor prove a claim of truth. Logical deduction involves the construction of sylogisms where the conclusions are not necessarily true, because to be accepted the propositions must be accepted as true. Many sylogisms in apologetic arguments are dependent on propositions that are only accepted by those that believe in the conclusion.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syllogism


    A syllogism (Greek: συλλογισμός syllogismos, "conclusion, inference") is a kind of logical argument that applies deductive reasoning to arrive at a conclusion based on two or more propositions that are asserted or assumed to be true.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Shuny, you are of the Baha'i faith, right? You believe it to be true in some way. Now on the premise that Baha'i faith is true, and Bible believing Christians for example do not believe in it. What does it matter for the Christian? Are there any meaningful consequences for the Bible believing Christian that should be weighed?
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  10. #20
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    I guess what you mean to ask is 'what effect does not believing in something have on one, if that something happens to be true'. Is that right? If so, that would depend, I think, upon whatever the true thing is that isn't believed in. I'm sure you're trying to get at something deeper here, but I'm not sure that either of us knows what that is.
    If not believing something that is true has an effect that must be weighed in the case of not believing that something. Take the case of the Bible believing Christian not believing there is no God, on the premise that it is true there is no God. The effect would be that upon death that Christian would not know anything let alone that he was wrong.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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