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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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  • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    There is insufficient evidence either way that the nature of our physical existence what ever exists is either finite and temporal nor infinite and eternal. It is ultimately an unknown. There is reasonable falsifiable evidence that the Zero state Quantum World exists in ALL the models and theorems concerning the cosmos. If Craig and you are going to use the BGV theorem, and not selectively misuse, you must accept that the multiverse is a part of the BGV theorem. By the way Craig argues that either the universe or the multiverse must have a beginning.
    No Shuny, I don't care what Bill Craig is saying, I'm saying that there is no evidence for a multiverse. And this universe had a beginning in the hot big bang, now if you think something existed before the Big Bang it is on you to provide the physical evidence.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

    Comment


    • Moot, not mote.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Moot, not mote.
        I like mote - speck of dust (or less).
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          No Shuny, I don't care what Bill Craig is saying, I'm saying that there is no evidence for a multiverse. And this universe had a beginning in the hot big bang, now if you think something existed before the Big Bang it is on you to provide the physical evidence.
          build your own personal castle with motte-and-bailey keeping out all reason and science while the real world goes by. It is apparent you do not care about much but your own barricaded word view.

          Physical evidence? Your cynical negative view of science would not allow anything in.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Physical evidence? Your cynical negative view of science would not allow anything in.
            Like I said, you don't have a lick.
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • Originally posted by seer View Post
              Like I said, you don't have a lick.
              I don't lick!
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                I don't lick!
                And you don't have physical evidence.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post
                  No Shuny, I don't care what Bill Craig is saying, I'm saying that there is no evidence for a multiverse. And this universe had a beginning in the hot big bang, now if you think something existed before the Big Bang it is on you to provide the physical evidence.
                  Quantum mechanics predicts a multi-verse seer, its not proof, but it is evidence and it is the only sensible way, at least from my perspective, to interpret the Shroedinger equation and wave function collapse. The cat can't be both dead and alive in the self same universe!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    No Shuny, I don't care what Bill Craig is saying, I'm saying that there is no evidence for a multiverse. And this universe had a beginning in the hot big bang, now if you think something existed before the Big Bang it is on you to provide the physical evidence.
                    There is some evidence for a multiverse and consequently its existence remains a viable possibility. “Most models of inflation do lead to a multiverse, and evidence for inflation will be pushing us in the direction of taking the idea of a multiverse seriously...." Alan Guth, MIT theoretical physicist.

                    http://www.space.com/25100-multivers...nal-waves.html

                    Thus, you can flatly deny the possibility of the multiverse for no other reason than it contradicts your religious presuppositions (just as it is apparent that you will deny the actual evidence if and when it becomes available), but the tradition among some to deny established scientific facts for religious reasons does not alter the reality of those facts. Just as the religion-based denial of the undoubted facts of Evolution has not altered the reality of those facts. All that such religious obscurantism achieves is the undermining of religion's credibility and the hastening of its decline.
                    Last edited by Tassman; 07-30-2014, 04:34 AM.
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                      There is some evidence for a multiverse and consequently its existence remains a viable possibility. “Most models of inflation do lead to a multiverse, and evidence for inflation will be pushing us in the direction of taking the idea of a multiverse seriously...." Alan Guth, MIT theoretical physicist.

                      http://www.space.com/25100-multivers...nal-waves.html

                      Thus, you can flatly deny the possibility of the multiverse for no other reason than it contradicts your religious presuppositions (just as it is apparent that you will deny the actual evidence if and when it becomes available), but the tradition among some to deny established scientific facts for religious reasons does not alter the reality of those facts. Just as the religion-based denial of the undoubted facts of Evolution has not altered the reality of those facts. All that such religious obscurantism achieves is the undermining of religion's credibility and the hastening of its decline.
                      Tass, I never said that a multiverse is impossible only that there is no actual evidence. Remember Tass you are the one always demanding evidence. There are a number of different theories that suggest that something (physical) existed before this present universe. None of which can point to any credible evidence. And you do know that your link about the discovery of gravitational waves has pretty much been debunked?

                      http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/bi...e-wrong-545203


                      Washington (AFP) - American astrophysicists who announced just months ago what they deemed a breakthrough in confirming how the universe was born now admit they may have got it wrong.

                      The team said it had identified gravitational waves that apparently rippled through space right after the Big Bang.

                      If proven to be correctly identified, these waves -- predicted in Albert Einstein's theory of relativity -- would confirm the rapid and violent growth spurt of the universe in the first fraction of a second marking its existence, 13.8 billion years ago.

                      The apparent first direct evidence of such so-called cosmic inflation -- a theory that the universe expanded by 100 trillion trillion times in barely the blink of an eye -- was announced in March by experts at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

                      The detection was made with the help of a telescope called BICEP2, stationed at the South Pole.

                      After weeks in which they avoided the media, the team published its work Thursday in the US journal Physical Review Letters.

                      In a summary, the team said their models "are not sufficiently constrained by external public data to exclude the possibility of dust emission bright enough to explain the entire excess signal," as stated by other scientists who questioned their conclusion.
                      Last edited by seer; 07-30-2014, 05:36 AM.
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Quantum mechanics predicts a multi-verse seer, its not proof, but it is evidence and it is the only sensible way, at least from my perspective, to interpret the Shroedinger equation and wave function collapse. The cat can't be both dead and alive in the self same universe!
                        Really Jim? We can not even know if the quantum world exists anywhere beside in this finite universe.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seer View Post
                          And you don't have physical evidence.
                          Presented many times in many threads describing the current knowledge of physics and cosmology. Go back into your Motte and Bailey and throw away the rusty key.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Quantum mechanics predicts a multi-verse seer, its not proof, but it is evidence and it is the only sensible way, at least from my perspective, to interpret the Shroedinger equation and wave function collapse. The cat can't be both dead and alive in the self same universe!
                            Careful Jim, science does not prove things.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              And you don't have physical evidence.
                              Seer, you apparently are not aware that there is no direct physical evidence of our universe has a beginning. The physical evidence we have does not go back to the point of the beginning. Of course, most models predict that the universe had a beginning with a singularity, but there is no physical evidence of a beginning.

                              If you know of any 'Direct Physical' evidence that our universe has a beginning, please cite it.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-30-2014, 06:46 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                                Seer, you apparently are not aware that there is no direct physical evidence of our universe has a beginning. The physical evidence we have does not go back to the point of the beginning. Of course, most models predict that the universe had a beginning with a singularity, but there is no physical evidence of a beginning.

                                If you know of any 'Direct Physical' evidence that our universe has a beginning, please cite it.
                                Well yes Shuny, there is good physical evidence that our universe is expanding. And that it could not have been expanding past-eternal because all our galaxies would be much further apart - so far apart, because of the speed they are moving, that we could not presently observe them. And by this time, if this universe was past-eternal we would have long ago reached full entropy. So yes there is good evidence that this universe if finite.


                                You can't see it happening on Earth, but space itself is stretching. Ever since the Big Bang happened 13.8 billion years ago, the universe has been getting bigger.

                                "If you go into the distant future, everything that we see in the universe right now will expand away from us so much that we won't be able to see it anymore," said David Schlegel of the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.
                                http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/08/tech/i...ers/index.html
                                Last edited by seer; 07-30-2014, 07:04 AM.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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