Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36

Thread: First born of all creation?

  1. #1
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Agnostic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    7,723
    Amen (Given)
    911
    Amen (Received)
    999

    First born of all creation?

    In Colossians 1:15 Paul states that Jesus is the first born of all creation. So how can Jesus be both God and be created?

  2. #2
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    35,080
    Amen (Given)
    3119
    Amen (Received)
    17100
    It means first born in the sense of "heir" - the first born son is preeminent. It doesn't mean he is created. It means he is preeminent over creation.


    You can understand this if you read the passage in CONTEXT.

    15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

    It is actually teaching that Christ created everything and is God.
    Last edited by Sparko; 10-24-2017 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #3
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    So. California
    Faith
    Nontraditional Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,428
    Amen (Given)
    771
    Amen (Received)
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    In Colossians 1:15 Paul states that Jesus is the first born of all creation. So how can Jesus be both God and be created?
    The answer is found in v.18, ". . . who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

    When the Word [the Logos] of God was "made" flesh (John 1:14) He became part of His own creation (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17).

    And He being the first immortal man (Hebrews 13:8) is the beginning of the new heaven and new earth to come (Romans 8:22, 23, 29 ". . . firstborn among many brethren . . . ;" Revelation 21:1).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  4. #4
    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,055
    Amen (Given)
    187
    Amen (Received)
    408
    Firstborn is also a title reflective of authority, thus "Firstborn of all Creation" indicates authority over creation, not necessarily a created entity.
    "Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the
    thankless sea?"

  5. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  6. #5
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Peter's Creek, Alaska
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11,209
    Amen (Given)
    18013
    Amen (Received)
    5913
    This is truly amazing! Jimmy has come up with a question that for 2,000 years no Christian theologian has discovered.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  7. #6
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    slave & child of Christ
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    16,223
    Amen (Given)
    11907
    Amen (Received)
    6826
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedidiah View Post
    This is truly amazing! Jimmy has come up with a question that for 2,000 years no Christian theologian has discovered.

    2 in one day, even!!


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  8. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  9. #7
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northern Hemisphere
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    8,575
    Amen (Given)
    4870
    Amen (Received)
    1573
    You know how the firstborn kid gets to boss around and look after the littler ones? Well, Jesus is like that. He is the King of kings and He gave His life for us so we wouldn't get in serious trouble for our naughtiness!
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  10. Amen seer amen'd this post.
  11. #8
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    So. California
    Faith
    Nontraditional Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,428
    Amen (Given)
    771
    Amen (Received)
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    Firstborn is also a title reflective of authority, thus "Firstborn of all Creation" indicates authority over creation, not necessarily a created entity.
    The Son of God became part of His creation through the incarnation(John 1:14). So in the resurrection He is indeed part of His creation. The term "firstborn" is used to refer to Him being resurrected (Colossians 1:15, 18; Romans 8:29; Hebrews 1:5-6; Revelation 1:5).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  12. #9
    tWebber guacamole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,055
    Amen (Given)
    187
    Amen (Received)
    408
    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    The Son of God became part of His creation through the incarnation(John 1:14). So in the resurrection He is indeed part of His creation. The term "firstborn" is used to refer to Him being resurrected (Colossians 1:15, 18; Romans 8:29; Hebrews 1:5-6; Revelation 1:5).
    Did you miss the "also" in my post, or is there some other quibble to bring to my attention? I don't see how both answers aren't true. "First born over creation" encompasses a lot of meaning in the phrase.

    fwiw,
    guacamole
    "Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the
    thankless sea?"

  13. #10
    tWebber 37818's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    So. California
    Faith
    Nontraditional Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,428
    Amen (Given)
    771
    Amen (Received)
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by guacamole View Post
    Did you miss the "also" in my post, or is there some other quibble to bring to my attention? I don't see how both answers aren't true. "First born over creation" encompasses a lot of meaning in the phrase.

    fwiw,
    guacamole
    Respectfully, that is not what the text means. As Creator (v.16-17, John 1:3) He is preeminent. The adding the word "over" is not translation but imposing a meaning not according to the text. The text refers to Him as a creature who is "the firstborn of every creature." That is important in order that "in all [things] He might have preeminence." Not just preeminence as God the Creator but preeminence also as His creation being a created being by way of His incarnation and His resurrection to be the first immortal man to be the first of His new creation (Colossians 1:18; Romans 8:22-23, 29, Revelation 1:5; 21:1).
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •