Morality or Obedience?

[Sparko]

The universe is amoral so moral systems are human constructions unrelated to objective truisms. Nothing is objectively immoral in that sense, but what is immoral is the violation of the rules we make re right and wrong. Thats just the way the world is. It's all up to us!

Nope, we are perfectly justified in condemning others, including god, for violating what we, in our opinion, believe to be immoral.

Except your condemnation has no bite, no meaning. You might as well condemn God for not giving lollipops to the Romans. God nor anyone else gives a flying fart what your opinion is on what is moral or immoral. You support mothers killing babies in the womb.

[JimL]

Except your condemnation has no bite, no meaning. You might as well condemn God for not giving lollipops to the Romans. God nor anyone else gives a flying fart what your opinion is on what is moral or immoral. You support mothers killing babies in the womb.

Oh, but you do care, we don't always agree, and we have laws in case there be a dispute in the matter. And btw, you must understand that god doesn't really exist from my perspective, my condemnation of the god of the israelites is really just a condemnation of the slavery practices of the Israelites themselves.

[Sparko]

Oh, but you do care, we don't always agree, and we have laws in case there be a dispute in the matter. And btw, you must understand that god doesn't really exist from my perspective, my condemnation of the god of the israelites is really just a condemnation of the slavery practices of the Israelites themselves.

I don't care Jimmy. Your opinion of what is moral or not is so twisted and corrupted that it has no meaning. If you told me the sky was blue I would have to double check it myself.

You can't even keep your values straight. You are now claiming that morals are subjective yet we can impose our morality on other societies retroactively, yet previously in other threads you told us that you believe morals are objective.

[JimL]

I don't care Jimmy. Your opinion of what is moral or not is so twisted and corrupted that it has no meaning. If you told me the sky was blue I would have to double check it myself.

You can't even keep your values straight. You are now claiming that morals are subjective yet we can impose our morality on other societies retroactively, yet previously in other threads you told us that you believe morals are objective.

No, you just don't happen to like, or are unable to face the way the world is. You don't want it to be left up to you decide for yourself, you want to told what is right or wrong, even though theres no one there to tell you. And no, I never said morality is objective, what I said is that morals are objective in the sense of the effects they have on society.

[Sparko]

No, you just don't happen to like, or are unable to face the way the world is. You don't want it to be left up to you decide for yourself, you want to told what is right or wrong, even though theres no one there to tell you. And no, I never said morality is objective, what I said is that morals are objective in the sense of the effects they have on society.

Sure! let's go with it is up to me to decide for myself. I decide that you are immoral and God is not.

that was easy.

Next?

[JimL]

Sure! let's go with it is up to me to decide for myself. I decide that you are immoral and God is not.

that was easy.

Next?

Exactly, see how easy that was? But remember, in order to truly be moral you have to use reason in order to understand why a thing is either good or bad from your own subjective point of view. Oh, and btw, you can't decide whether or not god is moral, because you have no idea if a god even exists or not. Nobody does!

[Tassman]

Sure! let's go with it is up to me to decide for myself. I decide that you are immoral and God is not.

that was easy.

Next?

It's not "that easy" because, as an evolved as a social animal, your decisions about what is right and wrong are influenced by your awareness of and response to the social rules of the group. For any social species the benefits of being part of an altruistic group outweigh the benefits of individualism.

[Sparko]

Exactly, see how easy that was? But remember, in order to truly be moral you have to use reason in order to understand why a thing is either good or bad from your own subjective point of view. Oh, and btw, you can't decide whether or not god is moral, because you have no idea if a god even exists or not. Nobody does!

That doesn't even make sense. But what can I expect from an immoral beast like yourself?

[Sparko]

It's not "that easy" because, as an evolved as a social animal, your decisions about what is right and wrong are influenced by your awareness of and response to the social rules of the group. For any social species the benefits of being part of an altruistic group outweigh the benefits of individualism.

I find your attitude to be immoral and depraved. I dismiss your evil opinions. You are evil, your arguments are invalid.

[seer]

I find your attitude to be immoral and depraved. I dismiss your evil opinions. You are evil, your arguments are invalid.

Piece of cake!

[Tassman]

I find your attitude to be immoral and depraved. I dismiss your evil opinions. You are evil, your arguments are invalid.

Unless your views reflect the social rules and attitudes of society they can be dismissed as the eccentric, individualistic crap that they are

[Sparko]

Unless your views reflect the social rules and attitudes of society they can be dismissed as the eccentric, individualistic crap that they are

They do Tassy. Christians are the majority of the western civilization and so our morality is only one that counts. And if you throw in Jews, Hindus, and even moderate muslims who share most of Christian morals, then you really are up the creek without a paddle. If Majority rules, you lose, you useless immoral piece of gutter trash.

[JimL]

They do Tassy. Christians are the majority of the western civilization and so our morality is only one that counts. And if you throw in Jews, Hindus, and even moderate muslims who share most of Christian morals, then you really are up the creek without a paddle. If Majority rules, you lose, you useless immoral piece of gutter trash.

Depends on who you are calling Christians, most Christians are christian in name only and couldn't give a damn what the church thinks. How many christians do you suppose are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etc.?

[Jedidiah]

Depends on who you are calling Christians, most Christians are christian in name only and couldn't give a damn what the church thinks. How many christians do you suppose are pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, etc.?

Speaking out of both sides of your mouth. When it is convenient anyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian. When it is not convenient you turn the other way. You are extremely dishonest.

[JimL]

Speaking out of both sides of your mouth. When it is convenient anyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian. When it is not convenient you turn the other way. You are extremely dishonest.

Well that's just silly Jed. There was recently a thread discussing whether or not Thomas Jefferson was a christian or not, and though he implied that he was in a sense a christian, I said that no he wasn't a christian. So, you're wrong. Christians don't all believe the same things, so when Sparko says Christians are the majority of the western civilization, and so their morality is the only one that counts, it doesn't mean very much, because christians don't all agree on what is moral and what is not, just like Thomas Jefferson didn't agree with much that was in the bible.