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Thread: Morality or Obedience?

  1. #21
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because I like chasing women and smoking weed and selling weed and watching porn. And I don't do those things (among others) anymore based solely on religious beliefs.
    Indeed. I'm a better person because of my religion.

    Someone might scoff and say, "You don't seem like that great of a person to me!" to which I would respond, "Perhaps not, but without religion, I would be even worse."
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Indeed. I'm a better person because of my religion.

    Someone might scoff and say, "You don't seem like that great of a person to me!" to which I would respond, "Perhaps not, but without religion, I would be even worse."
    To paraphrase CS Lewis, it is not so much what the man is with Christ, but what he would be without Christ.
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever. C.S. Lewis

  4. Amen Jedidiah, Mountain Man, Littlejoe amen'd this post.
  5. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because I like chasing women and smoking weed and selling weed and watching porn. And I don't do those things (among others) anymore based solely on religious beliefs.
    Would you rape women, would you sell drugs to children, would you rob, or murder and rob, every penny from an elderly widow? What do you think?

  6. #24
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Would you rape women, would you sell drugs to children, would you rob, or murder and rob, every penny from an elderly widow? What do you think?
    Jim, there are a lot of things I did do that I won't do now because of my faith. That is a fact, and I'm not going to lay out all my past sins, it is enough to say that many were criminal in nature.
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever. C.S. Lewis

  7. #25
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, there are a lot of things I did do that I won't do now because of my faith. That is a fact, and I'm not going to lay out all my past sins, it is enough to say that many were criminal in nature.
    Glad you got saved. I sure don't have an interesting Saul-Paul transformation style conversion. I was a mere child, so my morality is heavily influenced by Christian morality. I can't know what I'd be like without Jesus, because I have been a Christian for most of my life. My brain was still developing, so I don't know how that affects things.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, there are a lot of things I did do that I won't do now because of my faith. That is a fact, and I'm not going to lay out all my past sins, it is enough to say that many were criminal in nature.
    I wasn't asking you to lay out all, or any, of your past sins seer, I was asking if you would do those particular things that I asked you of in the above post now, if you knew there was no god? The reason I asked is because the sins that you mentioned that you no longer do were rather mild in nature and having not much, if any effect, on anyone but yourself. So you don't need to tell me what you did in the past, prior to your conversion, I'm only asking you if, knowing there is no god, would you do those particular things I ask you of today.

  9. #27
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Glad you got saved. I sure don't have an interesting Saul-Paul transformation style conversion. I was a mere child, so my morality is heavily influenced by Christian morality. I can't know what I'd be like without Jesus, because I have been a Christian for most of my life. My brain was still developing, so I don't know how that affects things.
    You sound a bit like a friend of mine who grew up in a good Christian home and was saved as a youngster. Though he had done nothing terrible himself, the thing that God used to get his attention was the realization that he was capable of doing the worst things than any person on earth had ever done (murder, etc.). As an unbeliever, he realized that his heart was fundamentally no different from theirs.
    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

  10. #28
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    Glad you got saved. I sure don't have an interesting Saul-Paul transformation style conversion. I was a mere child, so my morality is heavily influenced by Christian morality. I can't know what I'd be like without Jesus, because I have been a Christian for most of my life. My brain was still developing, so I don't know how that affects things.
    I did have a rather powerful conversion, but I was raised in a largely Catholic culture, neighborhood. But I was consciously agnostic by my early teens and I just look at man's laws and religion as things that got in the way of what I wanted.
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever. C.S. Lewis

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    I wasn't asking you to lay out all, or any, of your past sins seer, I was asking if you would do those particular things that I asked you of in the above post now, if you knew there was no god? The reason I asked is because the sins that you mentioned that you no longer do were rather mild in nature and having not much, if any effect, on anyone but yourself. So you don't need to tell me what you did in the past, prior to your conversion, I'm only asking you if, knowing there is no god, would you do those particular things I ask you of today.
    Yes Jim, there are a number of things I would do to make money that would not be lawful. Let me give you an example. I knew a older fellow back in the 80s (he is long dead) who used to fence high end stolen products. He was never violent, that I knew of, he used his profits to send his three kids to very good colleges, they all did well in life. He was never arrested, was a loving father and husband - when he died he left his family a nice chunk of change and prime Connecticut property. Could I do that - yes. I mean as an atheist, what would you tell this man?
    "We can understand hell in its aspect of privation. All your life an unattainable ecstasy has hovered just beyond the grasp of your consciousness. The day is coming when you will wake to find, beyond all hope, that you have attained it, or else, that it was within your reach and you have lost it forever. C.S. Lewis

  12. #30
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kbertsche View Post
    You sound a bit like a friend of mine who grew up in a good Christian home and was saved as a youngster. Though he had done nothing terrible himself, the thing that God used to get his attention was the realization that he was capable of doing the worst things than any person on earth had ever done (murder, etc.). As an unbeliever, he realized that his heart was fundamentally no different from theirs.
    I just wanted to have the loyalty that the three young men in the fiery furnace had. And the possible protection from evil men.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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