Originally posted by seer
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Morality or Obedience?
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Last edited by JimL; 10-26-2017, 12:50 PM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou are avoiding my specific question seer. Is there some reason you are avoiding answering to the specifics I asked of you? I'll ask again; If you knew there were no god, would you rape women, would you sell killer drugs to children, would you rob, or murder and rob, every last penny from an elderly widow? You've told me things that you would do, so can you tell me if you would do these things as well?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou are avoiding my specific question seer. Is there some reason you are avoiding answering to the specifics I asked of you? I'll ask again; If you knew there were no god, would you rape women, would you sell killer drugs to children, would you rob, or murder and rob, every last penny from an elderly widow? You've told me things that you would do, so can you tell me if you would do these things as well?If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Jim, your question does not make sense. It doesn't matter which behaviors I may decide to do if I wasn't a Christian, it only matters that there are behaviors that I would not do as a Christian. You asked "if God did not exist would you cease to live according to the morals that you now hold to?" My answer was yes, there are SOME MORALS I would no longer follow.
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI wouldn't. But I was raised in an environment where such things were seen as evil. What if you had been raised in an environment where it was considered okay to do what you wanted to women? Would you somehow be counter-cultural and say that raping women is wrong if you were taught your whole life that it was okay because that culture viewed females as subhuman or something? I can play this game too. Just substitute cultural mores for God. You are part nature, part nurture. So, if you had evil parents and grew up in an evil culture, chances are, said person would grow up to be evil by our standards.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYou're making my point CBW.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by JimL View PostYes, your answer was that there are some morals that you would no longer hold to, and you were willing to name those things, but you are not willing to say whether or not you would no longer hold to all of your morals such as whether you would violently rape women, sell dangerous drugs to children, rob, or murder and rob, every penny from and elderly widow. Why can't you say whether or not you would do those things if there were no god?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, I don't have a problem with robbing, selling dope to adults, no big deal. The rest I would personally still find wrong. And they expose you to a lot of jail time.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostSo, you wouldn't necessarily attribute your morality to god then? You would still have a sense of right and wrong even if you knew there were no god?
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI'm saying that we don't have internal moral standards according to your worldview, Jim. According to naturalism, we are merely conditioned by genetics and our environment and are no better than any other mammal. What will this all matter in a trillion years in that worldview? Sounds pretty hopeless to me. But I have hope in Jesus! And I, along with the rest of The Church(everyone who has trusted God for salvation), will be with Him in a renovated universe. And we will live happily ever after! The end! Humanism ends like a cosmic horror story as the stars slowly die out and the universe gets colder and colder until all that is left are small bits of subatomic particles. Heat death isn't a happy ending.
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I suspect that were I not a Christian, I'd be the vaguely obedient, somewhat milquetoast person that I am today, just with some different opinions. I know a lot of jerks, who if they were Christians, they'd be jerk Christians, and I know a lot of morally upstanding Christians, who, were they not Christians, would be morally upstanding people. I think personality accounts for a lot of our behavior--redeemed or not."Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostI suspect that were I not a Christian, I'd be the vaguely obedient, somewhat milquetoast person that I am today, just with some different opinions. I know a lot of jerks, who if they were Christians, they'd be jerk Christians, and I know a lot of morally upstanding Christians, who, were they not Christians, would be morally upstanding people. I think personality accounts for a lot of our behavior--redeemed or not.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostTrue, but the Holy Spirit does change those chosen.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Just caught a serious typo. Let's try it again.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOf course the atheist always resorts to espousing Christian virtues like altruism and benevolence, but that doesn't answer the question of why we shouldn't seek to live like, say, a Pablo Escabor, or a Hillary Clinton
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJimL, since we believe God gave us a conscience (even people who don't believe in him like YOU) you would have to prove that if God didn't exist that we would still exist and would still have a conscience.
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