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This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

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Lying for the sake of life

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    So the correct answer would be "No, the dress doesn't make your butt look big" and just leave off that last part.
    Well....the correct answer is...

    "I don't know honey...I'll need to see your butt with out anything on it to make a comparison!"
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

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    • #77


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
        hug.gif

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #79
          Nice save.


          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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          • #80
            Hmmm... there are no Jews in my basement! (because they are in a hidden compartment in the attic!)
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment

            • #81
              It is clear that solid Christians differ on this question. I certainly believe that God is sovereign and He can and will defend anyone if that is what His will is for that person. It is quite possible that a lie by a believer may be the way He chooses to save someone, just as was the case with Rahab's lie.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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              • #82
                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                Well, God doesn't lie! By his grace he can enable us to do the same.


                "Aim for perfection", said Paul (2 Cor. 13:11), "be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect", said Jesus (Mt. 5:38).


                This is one reason I believe in purgatory:

                “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Re 21:8)


                It has that sense in the ten commandments, but even in the OT there is the sense of plain lying:

                Then he said, “At this season next year you will embrace a son.” And she said, “No, my lord, O man of God, do not lie to your maidservant.” (2 Ki 4:16)

                Blessings,
                Lee
                Why can't lying be like killing? Killing is a sin, except when it is done to defend your or another's life. Then it is not a sin. Maybe lying to protect the life of another is not a sin.

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                • #83
                  Having said that, the consensus in church history is that lying about whether you are a Christian to protect your life is a sin.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Having said that, the consensus in church history is that lying about whether you are a Christian to protect your life is a sin.
                    Well Jesus said

                    Matthew 10:33 but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

                    But then Peter did that 3 times and was forgiven. I don't want to take the chance though.

                    I think lying to protect yourself is kind of self-serving but people might do it out of fear. Lying to protect someone else's life is different.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Why can't lying be like killing? Killing is a sin, except when it is done to defend your or another's life. Then it is not a sin. Maybe lying to protect the life of another is not a sin.
                      But God cannot lie (Titus 1:2, Heb. 6:18), therefore Jesus could not have lied, therefore lying is always a sin.

                      "No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless." (Rev. 14:5)

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Having said that, the consensus in church history is that lying about whether you are a Christian to protect your life is a sin.
                        Huge difference between protecting your own life and protecting someone else's.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          But God cannot lie (Titus 1:2, Heb. 6:18), therefore Jesus could not have lied, therefore lying is always a sin.

                          "No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless." (Rev. 14:5)

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          Jesus also never killed someone to save another person's life (the 'someone' would be a person trying to kill the person saved, of course), so does that mean that is a sin also?
                          Last edited by Sparko; 11-16-2017, 06:55 AM.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Jesus also never killed someone to save another person's life (the 'someone' would be a person trying to kill the person saved, of course), so does that mean that is a sin also?
                            Jesus wouldn't need to use lethal force. Though God killed others who were threatening the Israelites.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              Jesus wouldn't need to use lethal force. Though God killed others who were threatening the Israelites.

                              He killed an olive tree.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                He killed an olive tree.
                                Does not count.
                                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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