Lying for the sake of life

[One Bad Pig]

You like Vegemite but not olives?

Yes.

[Sparko]

Yes.

I like the bitterness of olives but not in black coffee.

[One Bad Pig]

I like the bitterness of olives but not in black coffee.

Bitterness isn't why I don't like olives either. They just taste awful to me.

My morning coffee is always black & bitter.

[Jedidiah]

Strong black coffee . . . ahhhhh yes.

[Teallaura]

Yes.

Okay, interesting...

[Darth Executor]

Huge difference between protecting your own life and protecting someone else's.

I don't agree.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't agree.

Protecting someone else's life often puts one's own life at risk.

[Darth Executor]

Protecting someone else's life often puts one's own life at risk.

yes

[Rushing Jaws]

Hi there.
I have a question that was brought up in my ethics course.
The general principle of those taking this course is that there is a prioritization of the laws of God.
Such as, preservation of life takes priority over the prohibition of theft if one needs to commit theft in order to preserve their own life or those to whom one might owe a responsibility.

I wonder what some of your thoughts might be regarding this method, especially when presented with the following statement:
"Corrie ten Boom was wrong to lie to the Nazis about the Jews she was hiding."

Clearly, falsehood was committed, and yet lives were preserved because of ten Boom's actions.

Would love to get general conversation going about prioritization and suspension of the laws as well!

[Rushing Jaws]

It is clear that solid Christians differ on this question. I certainly believe that God is sovereign and He can and will defend anyone if that is what His will is for that person. It is quite possible that a lie by a believer may be the way He chooses to save someone, just as was the case with Rahab's lie.

That would not make the lie itself a good thing. God has no need of our sins to do His Will.

[Jedidiah]

That would not make the lie itself a good thing. God has no need of our sins to do His Will.

Oh, I very much agree that God does not need them, but throughout scripture God uses sinful actions of people to accomplish His will.

[simplicio]

Yes it is a big subject, one which has been debated for centuries. But I have a question. Usually when this topic is discussed, the Decalogue is brought up, and the relationship of sin to the commandemnts.

What exactly is "false witness"? (Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, the eighth or ninth commandment)

[Teallaura]

In context it refers specifically to court proceedings, however, the logical extension to all dealings with others is supported with other Scripture. Conversely, incidences of lying for good purpose are also found in Scripture without apparent recrimination.

If you truly believe that all lying under any circumstance is sin, then it is. If you truly believe that lying to save the life (lives) of another is not sin, then it isn't.

Paul teaches us that all that is not faith is sin - God does not judge us by the letter of the Law - that was upheld by Jesus. He judges us by what we do with what we know - and how we live up to our best understanding of His word. Where there is room for legitimate difference of opinion, it is up to us to understand as best we can and live accordingly. This is not license to ignore things we don't like or a free pass on things we find difficult.

[simplicio]

In context it refers specifically to court proceedings, however, the logical extension to all dealings with others is supported with other Scripture. Conversely, incidences of lying for good purpose are also found in Scripture without apparent recrimination.

If you truly believe that all lying under any circumstance is sin, then it is. If you truly believe that lying to save the life (lives) of another is not sin, then it isn't.

Paul teaches us that all that is not faith is sin - God does not judge us by the letter of the Law - that was upheld by Jesus. He judges us by what we do with what we know - and how we live up to our best understanding of His word. Where there is room for legitimate difference of opinion, it is up to us to understand as best we can and live accordingly. This is not license to ignore things we don't like or a free pass on things we find difficult.

I wonder if this explanation leaves the door open to antinomianism. The topic of lying for good ends is one that seems to defy clear and concise answers, maybe it shows the complexity of the faith. And this is probably the first time I have seen it discussed without the eighth commandment being brought in, which is why I brought it up (if someone else brought it in I missed it).

What I do know is that the "heroes" of the holocaust, were not what we necessarily see as good and holy people, Oskar Schindler comes to mind; each case relied on deceit and subterfuge, if not outright lying. But I don't think any parent would accept the distinction between lying and the finer shades of avoiding the lie from their teenage children.

Not sure how closely we can cooperate with evil without some of it rubbing off on us; I doubt if many Christians would accept that the conscience as the guide regards to racism or abortion. And I have to admit that I have stated the exact thing in the past which you did on the conscience.

[Teallaura]

No, as I stated, it's not a free pass and doesn't apply to subjects which are clear.