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Thread: Lying for the sake of life

  1. #11
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    My thinking is that God can work without us lying. Rahab lied, but did she really have to? God would likely have saved the spies even if she had told the complete truth.

    God may use us, even if we lie.

    But remember who the Father of Lies is.

    I don't think we have to give up every single drop of information voluntarily, but if we are asked an explicit question about something, I believe it behooves us to honour God by answering truthfully, and He will handle the consequences.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  2. #12
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    Somehow I think Galatians 5:22-23 is applicable: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." I just haven't worked out how.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  3. #13
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    During the Sandy Hook shooting, the shooter walked into a kindergarten class where the teacher had hidden the entire class, and she sat by herself at the desk. She explicitly told the shooter she was alone in the room. The shooter shot her then moved on. There is no way that you can convince me that the ethical thing for her to do would have been to volunteer that there were 20 kids in the room to someone looking to kill them (and refusing to answer the question would have for all intents and purposes given it away).
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  4. #14
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    During the Sandy Hook shooting, the shooter walked into a kindergarten class where the teacher had hidden the entire class, and she sat by herself at the desk. She explicitly told the shooter she was alone in the room. The shooter shot her then moved on. There is no way that you can convince me that the ethical thing for her to do would have been to volunteer that there were 20 kids in the room to someone looking to kill them (and refusing to answer the question would have for all intents and purposes given it away).
    Just out of curiosity, how do we know this happened? Kids reported it?

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  5. #15
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how do we know this happened? Kids reported it?
    Yes. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...tails/1772791/
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  6. #16
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    I count 13 kids in that classroom, and the guy shot 6 of them.

    She didn't have to say "they aren't here". She could have said, "Do you see anybody besides me?" or some such.

    I will not change my belief that telling the truth is the right way. Always.

    And let God, in His sovreignty, take care of the consequences.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  7. Amen DesertBerean, lee_merrill amen'd this post.
  8. #17
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Jesus said:
    Scripture Verse: Matt 22:34-40

    34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

    © Copyright Original Source

    ISTM that if "On these two commandments depend ALL the Law and the Prophets..." Then lying to protect a neighbors life is the most loving thing you could do. (and Jesus told who our neighbor is...) Ergo, I would assume it would be acceptable to God. Just like Sparko pointed out with Rahab.

    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  9. #18
    tWebber kiwimac's Avatar
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    It is a mitzvah in Jewish law to save another life. It is not wrong in such cases to lie.
    "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

  10. Amen Jedidiah, Littlejoe amen'd this post.
  11. #19
    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Jesus said:
    Scripture Verse: Matt 22:34-40

    34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him.36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.38 This is the great and first commandment.39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

    © Copyright Original Source

    ISTM that if "On these two commandments depend ALL the Law and the Prophets..." Then lying to protect a neighbors life is the most loving thing you could do. (and Jesus told who our neighbor is...) Ergo, I would assume it would be acceptable to God. Just like Sparko pointed out with Rahab.

    Proverbs 12:22

    Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord,
    But those who deal faithfully are His delight.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  12. #20
    tWebber kiwimac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Proverbs 12:22

    Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord,
    But those who deal faithfully are His delight.
    Will you or nil you, this area is not the black and white one you paint it to be. Christians have debated this topic for centuries and most of us would say that the answer is "Yes." For the Jews it is easier as Judaism sums this up as Pikuach Nefesh (Hebrew: פיקוח נפש) which phrase describes a principle in Jewish law : that the preservation of human life overrides virtually any other religious consideration. When the life of a specific person is in danger, almost any mitzvah lo ta'aseh (command to not do an action) of the Torah becomes inapplicable.
    "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

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