Originally posted by JimL
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The Universe Shouldn't Exist...
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostWhat is the problelm with that question? Beyond the fact that you do not have an answer.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostI believe the question was answered the best that it could be, and JimL acknowledged this. To try to go beyond this is the fallacy 'arguing from ignorance' and therefore . . .Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostI do not recall an answer from Jim.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostI do not recall an answer from Jim.
'Simply the 'observed' nature of our physical existence. The closest we have in science is'Quantum Mechanics' describing where our macro physical existence 'comes from.' Natural Laws and physical nature of the Quantum world is where 'things come from.'
There is no 'comes from' that can be falsified concerning Natural Laws and the Quantum world.Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-11-2017, 04:41 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThe problem with the question Jed, is that it doesn't make sense. Obviously the eternal Cosmos didn't come from anywhere, it's eternal.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostDo you have any falsifiable evidence of an "eternal cosmos?"
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostDo you have any falsifiable evidence of an "eternal cosmos?"
Both Natural Laws and the cosmos are simply observed objectively to exist.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostNo, an neither is a non-eternal cosmos falsifiable, and this question likely will never be answered by science, nor anyone beyond a reasonable doubt.
Both Natural Laws and the cosmos are simply observed objectively to exist.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostIn all seriousness, what would you want scientists to do?
The options seem to be:
Never attempt to look at perhaps the biggest question out there?
Rework the entire scientific method to something out of the 12th century, so that it somehow incorporates evaluations of the probability of miracles?
You're hammering a bunch of scientists for, well, being scientists. Something that you generally have a great deal of respect for otherwise.
I have respect for science and I don't begrudge scientists even wondering what created the universe or if there are other universes, but don't arrogantly come off as if what they are "theorizing" about is fact, or that they even have actual evidence when they don't.
"we don't know" is a perfectly good scientific answer to me.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostJust come out and admit that they don't know, that they are guessing and may never know since at this point we can't get any evidence outside of the universe. Or of any other universe. It's OK to admit science can't answer everything at this time.
I have respect for science and I don't begrudge scientists even wondering what created the universe or if there are other universes, but don't arrogantly come off as if what they are "theorizing" about is fact, or that they even have actual evidence when they don't.
"we don't know" is a perfectly good scientific answer to me.
"We don't know yet" is the default answer for any scientific question, and only changes once we get information. So i completely agree with you there.
The whole point of this is that we can get evidence of the physics that would underly the production of other universes in our own. That wouldn't be a conclusive demonstration that they exist, but it would be more than "we don't know yet.""Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostTwo things:
"We don't know yet" is the default answer for any scientific question, and only changes once we get information. So i completely agree with you there.
The whole point of this is that we can get evidence of the physics that would underly the production of other universes in our own. That wouldn't be a conclusive demonstration that they exist, but it would be more than "we don't know yet."
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Originally posted by seer View PostExcept there are good reasons to believe that matter and energy are not past eternal:http://inference-review.com/article/...f-the-universe
Therefore, there is not reason to believe that our physical existence is past eternal, and there is no objective verifiable evidence either way.
Your speculating in the realm of the scieniists Quantum Mechanics, Cosmology, and Physics you do not believe there is any evidence for, and Sparko and you have no qualifications to make the judgments you make based on your theist agenda..Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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