Originally posted by guacamole
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines
Theists only.
This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.
The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.
The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."
The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.
The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.
The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."
The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
guacamole tells 37818 his views are heterodox
Collapse
X
-
guacamole tells 37818 his views are heterodox
. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJVTags: None
-
I genuinely don't get your issue on this. For some reason you seem to deny that the concept of "firstborn" cannot carry the semantic weight of implying authority, despite the fact that verse 17 directly references Christ's ruling authority--"All things were created through him and for him."
However, I'm far more perplexed by your assertion that Christ is a "created being"--ground well tread and rejected by the Church for millennia. What exactly is your stand on this?"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
-
Originally posted by guacamole View PostI genuinely don't get your issue on this. For some reason you seem to deny that the concept of "firstborn" cannot carry the semantic weight of implying authority, despite the fact that verse 17 directly references Christ's ruling authority--"All things were created through him and for him."
Originally posted by 37818 View Post. . . As Creator (v.16-17, John 1:3) He is preeminent. The adding the word "over" is not translation but imposing a meaning not according to the text. The text refers to Him as a creature who is "the firstborn of every creature." That is important in order that "in all [things] He might have preeminence." Not just preeminence as God the Creator . . .
.However, I'm far more perplexed by your assertion that Christ is a "created being"--ground well tread and rejected by the Church for millennia. What exactly is your stand on this?Last edited by 37818; 11-01-2017, 08:34 AM.. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
-
Originally posted by 37818 View PostI thought I had answered this early on.
The common context of usage, v.18, Romans 8:29, Revelation 1:5.
Again, clarify for me if you will, if it is your assertion that the idea of "firstborn" does not ever/cannot carry the idea of authority. It seems to me that it is common for the metaphors of scripture to be descriptions that are valid on a number of levels, hence my original "also."
Now the Son of God is the uncreated God with the Father. In the incarnation (John 1:14) He became part of His creation (Colossians 1:16-17; John 1:3, 10). In His incarnation He did not stop being God (John 3:13 KJV). But His humanity is not God (consider 1 Timothy 2:5).
... His creation being a created being..."Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
Comment
-
Originally posted by guacamole View PostYou're getting hung up on one verse in the passage, when there are a plurality of references on the idea of the firstborn not just being a concept of birth order.
Again, clarify for me if you will, if it is your assertion that the idea of "firstborn" does not ever/cannot carry the idea of authority. It seems to me that it is common for the metaphors of scripture to be descriptions that are valid on a number of levels, hence my original "also."
Fine. My comment was in reference to this:
... His creation being a created being...Originally posted by 37818 View Post. . .The text refers to Him as a creature who is "the firstborn of every creature." That is important in order that "in all [things] He might have preeminence." Not just preeminence as God the Creator but preeminence also as His creation being a created being by way of His incarnation and His resurrection to be the first immortal man to be the first of His new creation (Colossians 1:18; Romans 8:22-23, 29, Revelation 1:5; 21:1).. . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Larry Serflaten, 01-25-2024, 09:30 AM
|
432 responses
1,999 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Sparko
04-17-2024, 09:43 AM
|
Comment