27 Christians Murdered In Texas Church...

[Adrift]

was the gun registered?

I don't know. Likely not as it happened in Mexico in the early 1950s.

[Jedidiah]

I reject the accusation. I know who I am, and I know my own intent. You can think me a liar if you'd like, but I am not "virtue signalling". As I understand it, virtue signalling is usually demonstrated among peers who share similar views on the subject being virtue signaled. You don't share my view on the subject, so signalling you that I have virtue on the subject makes absolutely zero sense. If you understand virtue signalling in some other sort of way, then all I can do is repeat what I've stated. Call me a liar if you'd like, whatever. Also, I believe that I have offered plausible solutions. That you don't agree doesn't mean I haven't done so.

Forgive me, I was referring to the general gun grabber signalling. I did not actually intend to accuse you personally of virtue signalling. But to be completely clear I do not think anyone is actually intending to do such signalling. This term really refers to a sort of psychoanalysis done by gun owner supporters, and is just a way to deal with what seems to us to be nonfunctional arguments.

I have to say that while I differ with you strongly on this topic, I hold no personal rancor.

[Jedidiah]

Yep, but I covered this in post #147,

"Also, if guns are licensed and registered, the government could do yearly checks to ensure that the gun is still in the legal owner's possession, and the owner hadn't sold, lost, or had the gun stolen without informing anyone."

The "government" is already far too intrusive. We need a much less intrusive government, not a more intrusive one.

[Cow Poke]

Looks like the Church will be demolished. Doesn't surprise me at all.

linky

The pastor of the Texas church where a gunman killed 25 people says he plans on demolishing the building, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention said Thursday.

Frank Pomeroy told convention leaders that conducting services at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs would be too painful following Sunday's massacre, convention spokesman Roger Oldham told USA TODAY.

"The pastor expressed his desire that perhaps the best way forward is to have the church demolished and replaced with a prayer garden," Oldham said. But Oldham added that parishioners haven't "had a chance to fully deal with the grief and then come together to make a decision."

[One Bad Pig]

Looks like the Church will be demolished. Doesn't surprise me at all.

linky

The pastor of the Texas church where a gunman killed 25 people says he plans on demolishing the building, a spokesman for the Southern Baptist Convention said Thursday.

Frank Pomeroy told convention leaders that conducting services at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs would be too painful following Sunday's massacre, convention spokesman Roger Oldham told USA TODAY.

"The pastor expressed his desire that perhaps the best way forward is to have the church demolished and replaced with a prayer garden," Oldham said. But Oldham added that parishioners haven't "had a chance to fully deal with the grief and then come together to make a decision."

Probably easier for those involved, though there's something to be said for refusing to let evil push them out.

[Cow Poke]

Probably easier for those involved, though there's something to be said for refusing to let evil push them out.

I have that same internal struggle, OBP. I think, in my case, I would insist we "stand our ground" and fix things up, but I'm not there. It's a tough one. Something inside me says, "yeah, it would be a victory over evil"! Like turning something Satan intended for bad into something that would be a testimony to the "Victory in Jesus".

But, like I said, I'm not there.

[One Bad Pig]

I have that same internal struggle, OBP. I think, in my case, I would insist we "stand our ground" and fix things up, but I'm not there. It's a tough one. Something inside me says, "yeah, it would be a victory over evil"! Like turning something Satan intended for bad into something that would be a testimony to the "Victory in Jesus".

But, like I said, I'm not there.

Yeah. It's not an easy path, for sure.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah. It's not an easy path, for sure.

It's not. But I noticed the Pastor did say something to the effect that he hasn't had time to consult with the rest of the congregation on this, so, maybe this will change.

Maybe, given a little time, they'll come to the conclusion that they want to take a stand.

On the other hand, it's not such a bad idea to make a "prayer garden" (one of the options) on the ground where the church building stood in memory of the slain.

You're kinda making me think through this, and I appreciate that. It kinda hits close to home.

[Cow Poke]

I'll be at a conference in Dallas on Monday and Tuesday, and part of the agenda is to discuss this, and to send encouragement to the people of Sutherland Springs. It's possible that their Pastor will be there to meet with us.

[Thoughtful Monk]

This just in....

SABA Response Opportunities
for FBC Sutherland

The Gambrell Baptist Association office (a member of the South Central Texas Area) has just given us an update on the fund. The Attorney General has stated the funeral and medical expenses of the victims will be covered because this was a criminal act.

GBA has asked that the fund be changed to a "building repair" fund. The church building has been damaged and needs extensive repair.

SABA is receiving donations to help repair the FBC Sutherland building. We have added an online donation link located at the bottom of the home page on the SABA website - sanantoniobaptist.org

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Hey CP. The story is moving so much that I'm losing track. Now that they are apparently going to demolish the building, what are the funds going to be used for?

[NorrinRadd]

One of the things that i find disturbing is that the guy was, from all reports, a raving atheist, and that's not getting reported barely at all. I don't think the guy's atheism necessarily pushed him into shooting up a church. You don't shoot up a church cause you're an atheist, you shoot up a church cause you're nuts or because you're possessed, or something. But the fact that it isn't getting any media attention at all when, if the reverse was done (a Christian shooting up an secularist meeting), they'd be having a field day about it, is just... I don't know. It's not right.

I think humans can easily be evil enough to do that sort of stuff without being demonized or "insane."

As for the rest -- Yes, they have definitely been avoiding the religious/ideological aspect and focusing on his domestic disputes. The proverbial "deafening silence."

The closest thing I've heard to *any* "official" acknowledgement was at a presser a day, maybe two after the event, when a police representative very carefully said something to the effect that if the whole thing was about the guy's domestic issues with his mother-in-law (or whatever), he could have easily found a way to deal *only* with her.

[KingsGambit]

I think it's just as well that the guy's motivation isn't being widely speculated on. The evidence doesn't seem to demonstrate that he was for sure motivated by his atheism, so anything along those lines is speculation and rumor mongering. After the Columbine shooting, rank speculation about motivation lead us down many fruitless rabbit trails (people tried to blame everything from video games to Marilyn Manson).

Compare this to the Dylann Roof incident, where he made very clear he was motivated by racism.

[NorrinRadd]

I think it's just as well that the guy's motivation isn't being widely speculated on. The evidence doesn't seem to demonstrate that he was for sure motivated by his atheism, so anything along those lines is speculation and rumor mongering. After the Columbine shooting, rank speculation about motivation lead us down many fruitless rabbit trails (people tried to blame everything from video games to Marilyn Manson).

Compare this to the Dylann Roof incident, where he made very clear he was motivated by racism.

Then they should just totally shut up about his domestic dispute also. Leave it at "He did it, he was evil."

[Cow Poke]

Hey CP. The story is moving so much that I'm losing track. Now that they are apparently going to demolish the building, what are the funds going to be used for?

They are planning on making memorial garden on the site of the old church - I talked to a Texas Ranger today who has actually been in the building, and I can understand why they don't want to "repair" it - and maybe build a new church building at a different location. I'll know more on Monday.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Then they should just totally shut up about his domestic dispute also. Leave it at "He did it, he was evil."

Unfortunately, no one believes in evil as a reason someone does something. That's because now all wrong behavior is just a disease and if we knew what disease he had, we could have cured it.