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  1. #271
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    Well... if someone is a preterist, then "sitting around twiddling their thumbs all day" is generally a pretty apt description of what they believe Satan is doing.
    This is one of the biggest reasons I don't accept preterism. I've seen too much, both in person, and in past accounts to see Satan and the demons as "bound" at any point in history.
    Safka, you are NOT "unknown", you were loved by many, and you will not be forgotten. I will always remember you Puginator.


  2. Amen Adrift, Thoughtful Monk amen'd this post.
  3. #272
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    This is one of the biggest reasons I don't accept preterism. I've seen too much, both in person, and in past accounts to see Satan and the demons as "bound" at any point in history.
    Please note that preterism only sees Satan bound, not his minions.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  4. #273
    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Please note that preterism only sees Satan bound, not his minions.
    Kinda like a drug lord running his cartel from prison.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  5. #274
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Please note that preterism only sees Satan bound, not his minions.
    I know I've seen some preterists say that the demons are bound too. It's been a long time since then though, so details on which ones are sketchy right now. Either way, I can't see Satan as bound in any point in history. Nor do I know of any examples in the history of Christianity until recent preterists that say he's bound.
    Safka, you are NOT "unknown", you were loved by many, and you will not be forgotten. I will always remember you Puginator.


  6. #275
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    I know I've seen some preterists say that the demons are bound too. It's been a long time since then though, so details on which ones are sketchy right now. Either way, I can't see Satan as bound in any point in history. Nor do I know of any examples in the history of Christianity until recent preterists that say he's bound.
    Actually, the general amil position is that Satan is bound - and amil was more or less the consensus position of the church for much of church history.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  7. Amen Terraceth amen'd this post.
  8. #276
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Probably one of the big reasons why I could never be a preterist. I think it's pretty obvious that demonic forces are still active and that "our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens" is just as applicable today as it was in the 1st century.
    Belief in Satan being bound isn't reserved to just preterism It's part of amillenialism in general, though to what extent the binding constrains him is a matter of disagreement.

    At any rate, I have to disagree, as while I can see supernatural satanic forces meddling in the world in the present as being behind the world's problems as possible, I don't see any particular reason to believe they are a required component.
    Last edited by Terraceth; 11-14-2017 at 11:17 PM.

  9. #277
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Actually, the general amil position is that Satan is bound - and amil was more or less the consensus position of the church for much of church history.
    Thanks for the info. From what I've been able to find on the internet* amillenialism didn't really appear until Augustine. At least not explicitly.

    *I know not all of the info is reliable, and admit this is a cursory search. I don't have access to a library, so I'm limited to the internet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    Belief in Satan being bound isn't reserved to just preterism It's part of amillenialism in general, though to what extent the binding constrains him is a matter of disagreement.

    At any rate, I have to disagree, as while I can see supernatural satanic forces meddling in the world in the present as being behind the world's problems as possible, I don't see any particular reason to believe they are a required component.
    If the description in Revelation isn't a picture of complete, and total cessation of Satan's powers, then it's impossible to make sense of the text.

    I've seen far too much of demonic, and even Satanic activity, either directly, or through the acts of others to think it's not a major issue with the world. If this is Satan "bound" then I don't want to see him "released" even if it is "for a short time".
    Safka, you are NOT "unknown", you were loved by many, and you will not be forgotten. I will always remember you Puginator.


  10. #278
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    If the description in Revelation isn't a picture of complete, and total cessation of Satan's powers, then it's impossible to make sense of the text.
    I don't think this conclusion is necessary; Revelation is filled with hyperbole, symbols, and picture language. The "complete" binding of Satan could easily be a hyperbolic symbolizing a general limiting of Satan's powers.

    Having said that, given the highly symbolic nature of Revelation, I think preterists who dogmatically interpret the binding of Satan and make theological conclusions based on that are overconfident in the correctness of their interpretation. Nobody knows for sure what all the symbols mean, but the general gist of Revelation is clear.
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  11. Amen Darth Executor amen'd this post.
  12. #279
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
    Thanks for the info. From what I've been able to find on the internet* amillenialism didn't really appear until Augustine. At least not explicitly.

    *I know not all of the info is reliable, and admit this is a cursory search. I don't have access to a library, so I'm limited to the internet.
    Based on my own reading of early church writings, this seems to be more or less correct. While OBP may be technically correct that the amillennial view was the prominent view for most of church history, the early Christian writers seem to have been mostly Chiliasts.

  13. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  14. #280
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Based on my own reading of early church writings, this seems to be more or less correct. While OBP may be technically correct that the amillennial view was the prominent view for most of church history, the early Christian writers seem to have been mostly Chiliasts.
    There were a significant number of Christians as early as the second century who held to a less literal view of the millennium, according to Justin Martyr, himself a chiliast:

    I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.
    ( https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf...i.iv.lxxx.html )
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

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