Originally posted by Terraceth
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostThis is one of the biggest reasons I don't accept preterism. I've seen too much, both in person, and in past accounts to see Satan and the demons as "bound" at any point in history.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPlease note that preterism only sees Satan bound, not his minions.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostPlease note that preterism only sees Satan bound, not his minions.
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI know I've seen some preterists say that the demons are bound too. It's been a long time since then though, so details on which ones are sketchy right now. Either way, I can't see Satan as bound in any point in history. Nor do I know of any examples in the history of Christianity until recent preterists that say he's bound.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostProbably one of the big reasons why I could never be a preterist. I think it's pretty obvious that demonic forces are still active and that "our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens" is just as applicable today as it was in the 1st century.
At any rate, I have to disagree, as while I can see supernatural satanic forces meddling in the world in the present as being behind the world's problems as possible, I don't see any particular reason to believe they are a required component.Last edited by Terraceth; 11-14-2017, 05:17 PM.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostActually, the general amil position is that Satan is bound - and amil was more or less the consensus position of the church for much of church history.
*I know not all of the info is reliable, and admit this is a cursory search. I don't have access to a library, so I'm limited to the internet.
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostBelief in Satan being bound isn't reserved to just preterism It's part of amillenialism in general, though to what extent the binding constrains him is a matter of disagreement.
At any rate, I have to disagree, as while I can see supernatural satanic forces meddling in the world in the present as being behind the world's problems as possible, I don't see any particular reason to believe they are a required component.
I've seen far too much of demonic, and even Satanic activity, either directly, or through the acts of others to think it's not a major issue with the world. If this is Satan "bound" then I don't want to see him "released" even if it is "for a short time".
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostIf the description in Revelation isn't a picture of complete, and total cessation of Satan's powers, then it's impossible to make sense of the text.
Having said that, given the highly symbolic nature of Revelation, I think preterists who dogmatically interpret the binding of Satan and make theological conclusions based on that are overconfident in the correctness of their interpretation. Nobody knows for sure what all the symbols mean, but the general gist of Revelation is clear."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostThanks for the info. From what I've been able to find on the internet* amillenialism didn't really appear until Augustine. At least not explicitly.
*I know not all of the info is reliable, and admit this is a cursory search. I don't have access to a library, so I'm limited to the internet.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostBased on my own reading of early church writings, this seems to be more or less correct. While OBP may be technically correct that the amillennial view was the prominent view for most of church history, the early Christian writers seem to have been mostly Chiliasts.
I admitted to you formerly, that I and many others are of this opinion, and [believe] that such will take place, as you assuredly are aware; but, on the other hand, I signified to you that many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThere were a significant number of Christians as early as the second century who held to a less literal view of the millennium, according to Justin Martyr, himself a chiliast:
( https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf...i.iv.lxxx.html )
"Papias reproduces other stories communicated to him by word of mouth, together with some otherwise unknown parables and teachings of the Saviour, and other things of a more allegorical character. He says that after the resurrection of the dead there will be a period of a thousand years, when Christ's kingdom will be set up on this earth in material form. I suppose he got these notions by misinterpreting the apostolic accounts and failing to grasp what they had said in mystic and symbolic language. For he seems to have been a man of very small intelligence, to judge from his books. But it is partly due to him that the great majority of churchmen after him took the same view, relying on his early date; e.g. Irenaeus and several others, who clearly held the same opinion." - The History of the Church, Book 3:39
So at least up until the 4th century, and probably as late as the 5th, if not later, it seemed to be the predominant view of the church.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostProbably, but I'm not a mod, so I don't know about these things.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostBased on my own reading of early church writings, this seems to be more or less correct. While OBP may be technically correct that the amillennial view was the prominent view for most of church history, the early Christian writers seem to have been mostly Chiliasts.Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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