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Roy Moore accused of sexual contact with 14-year old

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  • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    You're forgetting that it was not uncommon for women to die in childbirth and for the widower to subsequently remarry. This is relevant because Joseph is traditionally believed to have been a widower (and his complete absence from the biblical record after Jesus' 12th year would seem to corroborate that).

    I agree that this would not apply to Moore's case, but you're depending on later rabbis and not all men married that young (witness Jesus, who was still unmarried at 33).
    A widower remarrying is an interesting point. I don't know the exact rules on that subject, but I do know that some in the ANE frowned upon it because of ideas about wicked stepmothers (yes, that was really a concern). It seems to me that, unless the widower was relatively wealthy, it wouldn't be in the best interest of an older widower to marry a substantially younger virgin bride. I can't imagine too many families giving away their daughter to some much older man who had already been married, who may already have had children from that first marriage, and who wouldn't live long enough to care for his bride in her old age. The traditional view of Joseph as an older widower mostly finds it's roots in the later church's view on Mary's perpetual virginity. Granted, this was postulated as early as the 2nd century apocryphal text, the Protoevangelium of James, and also later mentioned in other texts like the 7th century History of Joseph the Carpenter, but I'm not sure how much credence we can give the traditional apocryphal view.

    Concerning the unmarried Jesus, while it's true that most Jewish males were expected to get married by 18-20, Daryl Bock points out in his works (i.e. Breaking the Da Vinci Code) that pious Jews who were devoted to a celibate lifestyle were shown respect in a number of early Jewish texts.

    But anyhow, most of this is tertiary I suppose. I still feel that there are probably conditional ethical elements here that make the similarities between Joseph and Moore pretty much pointless.
    Last edited by Adrift; 11-18-2017, 01:12 AM.

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    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      That's the sticking point, I think. You're probably right about the vast majority of 14- to 16-year olds, but there will always be those exceptions which prevent you from being able to declare it inherently immoral, especially in light of ancient Jewish culture and history and the fact that God never commanded the nation of Israel to give up their marriage traditions, and Paul even explicitly says that it is not immoral to marry a young woman who is "past the flower of her age", which most commentaries say is a reference to puberty. Culture has changed, so it's not an advisable practice in our current society, and there are good arguments against it, but it is not inherently immoral.
      Oh really! So you’re suggesting that Roy Moore, when he regularly trolled the mall on the lookout out for young teenage girls, was careful to select just those “exceptions” that were sufficiently physically and emotionally mature to cope with the advances of a 30+ y.o. man.

      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      It was calculated to fool liberal idiots like Tass, and when it comes to fooling liberal idiots, Franken knows his business.
      Franken offered an apology and acknowledged wrongdoing, Moore has not. It's as simple as that.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        tl;dr
        Have you noticed that while God is silent, people love to tell you what God thinks about us, what He demands of us, how His Plan is going and what He will do for us? Don’t you think that is a little strange? No?

        You avoid evidence because truth is not important for you, and are congratulated for it by you fellow delusionists.

        “Any faith that must be supported by the evidence of the senses is not real faith.”
        ― A.W. Tozer, The Knowledge of the Holy
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          If Franken is forced out then the Democrat governor of Minnesota will select another Democrat to take his place. That person will have the advantage of being the incumbent and since Minnesota is becoming increasingly more liberal will almost assuredly remain the Senator in the next election.

          The reason why the Democrats would be reluctant to boot Franken is that he is viewed as a rising star in the party and a great pick to take on the Trump Administration (look at the MSM's rave reviews of his questioning of Jeff Sessions for an example).
          Yes, but the photograph and credible accusations against him (which he has not actually denied) make him extremely politically vulnerable. Even members of his own party have started to distance themselves from him.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
            Oh really! So you’re suggesting that Roy Moore, when he regularly trolled the mall on the lookout out for young teenage girls, was careful to select just those “exceptions” that were sufficiently physically and emotionally mature to cope with the advances of a 30+ y.o. man.
            In light of the fact that by all accounts Moore sought the permission of the families before dating the young women and carried himself like a gentleman, it would seem the answer is yes.

            Originally posted by Tassmoron View Post
            Franken offered an apology and acknowledged wrongdoing, Moore has not. It's as simple as that.
            It's as simple as Franken was busted with irrefutable proof of his guilt while there is not a shed of credible evidence against Moore. Why should Moore apologize for something he never did? And why isn't Franken being forced to resign in disgrace for something he undeniably did?

            I love liberal "consistency".
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • A dozen women ranging from relatives to former girlfriends, fellow employees, and childhood friends have stepped forward to defend Moore and have denounced the attempted character assassination of the left.

              http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...-defend-moore/
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                Franken offered an apology and acknowledged wrongdoing, Moore has not. It's as simple as that.
                Dude, the big fat idiot* got caught in a picture he POSED for -- how could he NOT acknowledge what he did?





                *what he calls his friends
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  You avoid evidence because truth is not important for you,
                  Truth and you are living on opposite ends of the world.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                    Truth and you are living on opposite ends of the world.
                    Going back to your #192, why do you think there would be any evidence for the non-existence of God? If we assume that there is, in fact, no God, what difference would you expect to see?

                    I think there would be no difference.

                    Notice that you need to prove that God is essential to the difference you choose. You should be able to see that there is no point in asking the question the way you asked it because the proposition ‘God’ is all yours.
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                      Going back to your #192, why do you think there would be any evidence for the non-existence of God? If we assume that there is, in fact, no God, what difference would you expect to see?
                      I wouldn't expect to see a difference because I don't believe anything would exist at all.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        Yes, but the photograph and credible accusations against him (which he has not actually denied) make him extremely politically vulnerable. Even members of his own party have started to distance themselves from him.
                        Yes, it's fair to say that his rising star is over at this point. He will probably always be associated with too much baggage to be his party's standard bearer from here on out.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          Yes, it's fair to say that his rising star is over at this point. He will probably always be associated with too much baggage to be his party's standard bearer from here on out.
                          And he only has himself to blame.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            A widower remarrying is an interesting point. I don't know the exact rules on that subject, but I do know that some in the ANE frowned upon it because of ideas about wicked stepmothers (yes, that was really a concern). It seems to me that, unless the widower was relatively wealthy, it wouldn't be in the best interest of an older widower to marry a substantially younger virgin bride. I can't imagine too many families giving away their daughter to some much older man who had already been married, who may already have had children from that first marriage, and who wouldn't live long enough to care for his bride in her old age.
                            Weren't children were expected to care for their parents in their old age?
                            The traditional view of Joseph as an older widower mostly finds it's roots in the later church's view on Mary's perpetual virginity. Granted, this was postulated as early as the 2nd century apocryphal text, the Protoevangelium of James....
                            It seems to me that your admission regarding the Protoevangelium rather vitiates the preceding claim. IIRC, Mary's perpetual virginity was vigorously defended at least as early as Jerome (and was widely held even by Protestants into the 19th century).
                            But anyhow, most of this is tertiary I suppose. I still feel that there are probably conditional ethical elements here that make the similarities between Joseph and Moore pretty much pointless.
                            Yeah.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Yes, it's fair to say that his rising star is over at this point. He will probably always be associated with too much baggage to be his party's standard bearer from here on out.
                              I find that difficult to believe. I mean, if Hillary didn't have too much baggage to be her party's standard bearer....
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                I find that difficult to believe. I mean, if Hillary didn't have too much baggage to be her party's standard bearer....
                                Hillary never got denounced en masse by Democrats, but for whatever reason Frankenstein did. (Leaving the results of my phone's autocorrect because it's too funny.)
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                                Comment

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