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Roy Moore accused of sexual contact with 14-year old

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  • Ya know, when it's mentioned, every story I've seen talks about Moore asking the mother's permission, never the father's.

    Is that an Alabama thing?

    </not derailing>


    Now back to ...

    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Weren't children were expected to care for their parents in their old age?
    I'd laugh harder if I didn't think it'd guarantee a worse grammar fail of my own.

    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    They were, but who is going to provide for the family in the meantime when pop is dead, and the kids aren't old enough to take on that responsibility? I suppose children from a previous marriage could, assuming they were old enough. Perhaps this is why the warnings against remarrying in that era arose. Children from a previous marriage may not have been inclined to take full care of someone they did not feel a biological connection to.
    Checking my memory just now, in the earliest gospel, Mark, there's an indirect reference to Mary in chapter 3, and a direct reference in chapter 6, and that's it. The direct reference says nothing about their personal relationship while the indirect reference is clearly intended to put distance between them in favor of his followers.

    When the latest gospel, John, was written, the very last thing Jesus' did before his vinegar and death was take care of his mother, handing her off to the apostle he loved, but apparently not enough to get his biographers to name him for us.

    Still, at face value, I'd say this is a clear indication that Mary had no actual children to take care of her in her old age.

    I suspect many if not most of the gospel stories not found in Mark accreted over time in the interest of buttressing some now-obscure social argument entailed in the developing theology. In that context, the last mention in John was added as an argument for perpetual virginity in response to these cultural concerns.

    Of course, it also mirrors the earliest reference in Mark by favoring the apostles over Jesus' family, and here I'm thinking specifically of his brother James.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
      Of course, it also mirrors the earliest reference in Mark by favoring the apostles over Jesus' family, and here I'm thinking specifically of his brother James.
      Two reasons why Jesus may not have thought that James was a suitable caretaker: 1) James wasn't at the foot of the cross like John was, meaning that he had abandoned both Jesus and his own mother; 2) James was hostile to Christianity at the time and didn't come to believe until later.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
        Ya know, when it's mentioned, every story I've seen talks about Moore asking the mother's permission, never the father's.

        Is that an Alabama thing?

        </not derailing>


        Now back to ...



        I'd laugh harder if I didn't think it'd guarantee a worse grammar fail of my own.



        Checking my memory just now, in the earliest gospel, Mark, there's an indirect reference to Mary in chapter 3, and a direct reference in chapter 6, and that's it. The direct reference says nothing about their personal relationship while the indirect reference is clearly intended to put distance between them in favor of his followers.

        When the latest gospel, John, was written, the very last thing Jesus' did before his vinegar and death was take care of his mother, handing her off to the apostle he loved, but apparently not enough to get his biographers to name him for us.

        Still, at face value, I'd say this is a clear indication that Mary had no actual children to take care of her in her old age.

        I suspect many if not most of the gospel stories not found in Mark accreted over time in the interest of buttressing some now-obscure social argument entailed in the developing theology. In that context, the last mention in John was added as an argument for perpetual virginity in response to these cultural concerns.

        Of course, it also mirrors the earliest reference in Mark by favoring the apostles over Jesus' family, and here I'm thinking specifically of his brother James.
        Mark 6:3 tells us,
        Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses (identified as Joseph in Matthew 13:55), and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

        So there's possibly another reference to Mary and Jesus's family in Mark 15:40,
        Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph, and Salome.

        I, of course, don't see any reason to suggest that the non-Markan passages on Jesus and his family are part of some later developing theology.
        Last edited by Adrift; 11-19-2017, 11:21 AM.

        Comment


        • Clarice Feldman is always interesting to read. Here is an excerpt from her regular Sunday post:
          There’s a lot going on in DC this week, but it seems to be overshadowed by Weinstein case creep -- the penchant for women coming out of the woodwork to accuse high profile men of sexual misbehavior, much of it from decades earlier and most of it unverifiable. Some these allegations are clearly fabrications. That certainly seems to be true of the claims against Roy Moore. On Twitter, Thomas Wictor has made a credible analysis establishing that the one piece of non-testimonial record against Moore, a yearbook notation purportedly by Judge Moore in 1977, is a forgery made with two different inks, and the “D.A.” after his name (at a time when he was not district attorney) are the initials of his law clerk, who signed the court paper used as the forgery template.

          Gloria Allred, notorious for sitting with unpersuasive sobbing women as she daubs their tears and peddles incredible tales, repeatedly refused to answer Wolf Blitzer’s questions about whether the signature was a forgery and has said she never even asked her client, Mrs. Wilson, whether she actually saw Judge Moore sign it.

          Moore has demanded the yearbook be turned over for forensic examination and Allred says she’ll turn it over only to a (nonexistent) Senate Committee for its investigators to study.

          Foolish deflection from a woman as to whom complaints are (as far as I can determine) still pending before the DC and California bars and whose claims in any event, based on her past performances, deserve to be disregarded.

          Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...#ixzz4yuQbuB62

          It was also interesting to read the many twitter posts by Thomas Wictor, cited above by Clarice Feldman re accusations against Judge Roy Moore, which I found via Google searches. Wictor's twitter posts containing analyses and comments re Judge Moore resonate and ring true with me.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            I find that difficult to believe. I mean, if Hillary didn't have too much baggage to be her party's standard bearer....
            Trump had a great deal of baggage as well (although I would argue not nearly as much as Hillary).

            And as you've already noted, even a couple decades ago the hero of Chappaquiddick came within a whisker's breadth of securing the nod from his party.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Hillary never got denounced en masse by Democrats, but for whatever reason Frankenstein did. (Leaving the results of my phone's autocorrect because it's too funny.)
              They are hoping to use this rising tide of repulsion against those who sexually harass and assault to go after Trump again[1]. They can't give Franken a pass and have a shred of credibility left as they pursue Trump. Therefore if tossing Franken under the bus can move them closer to their ultimate goal then so be it. It's like sacrificing a knight in order to secure checkmate or at least get the queen.








              1. You should have seen This Week With George Stephanopoulos where it was all about sexual misconduct and Trump, Moore, Trump, Moore, Trump, Franken, Trump, Trump, Moore. Even though the incident involving Franken (widely regarded as having been a major rising star in his party) was the big breaking story, he was regulated to footnote status with his name barely being mentioned (and his party affiliation studiously avoided the few times his name did get brought up).

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                “Mall officials told us they are not in possession of records that would identify who was banned in the late 1970s and 1980s. A Gadsden Mall spokeswoman told us: The report, however, is based on sources recalling a rumor, in some cases. Those rumors have been corroborated by news reports of accusations leveled at Moore by at least nine women who were in their teens and twenties at the time.”

                https://www.snopes.com/2017/11/17/ro...ng-teen-girls/
                Snopes is utterly worthless when it comes to political issues.

                Moreover, Barnes Boyle, who was the manager of the mall at the time, recently told WBRC News in Birmingham, Alabama that he doesn't recall Moore ever being banned from the mall. If anyone would remember someone as prominent as a local District Attorney being banned for sexually harassing teenage girls it would be him.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  This derail needs to be taken elsewhere.
                  aehnhl.gif

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by John Reece View Post
                    Clarice Feldman is always interesting to read. Here is an excerpt from her regular Sunday post:
                    There’s a lot going on in DC this week, but it seems to be overshadowed by Weinstein case creep -- the penchant for women coming out of the woodwork to accuse high profile men of sexual misbehavior, much of it from decades earlier and most of it unverifiable. Some these allegations are clearly fabrications. That certainly seems to be true of the claims against Roy Moore. On Twitter, Thomas Wictor has made a credible analysis establishing that the one piece of non-testimonial record against Moore, a yearbook notation purportedly by Judge Moore in 1977, is a forgery made with two different inks, and the “D.A.” after his name (at a time when he was not district attorney) are the initials of his law clerk, who signed the court paper used as the forgery template.

                    Gloria Allred, notorious for sitting with unpersuasive sobbing women as she daubs their tears and peddles incredible tales, repeatedly refused to answer Wolf Blitzer’s questions about whether the signature was a forgery and has said she never even asked her client, Mrs. Wilson, whether she actually saw Judge Moore sign it.

                    Moore has demanded the yearbook be turned over for forensic examination and Allred says she’ll turn it over only to a (nonexistent) Senate Committee for its investigators to study.

                    Foolish deflection from a woman as to whom complaints are (as far as I can determine) still pending before the DC and California bars and whose claims in any event, based on her past performances, deserve to be disregarded.

                    Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/artic...#ixzz4yuQbuB62

                    It was also interesting to read the many twitter posts by Thomas Wictor, cited above by Clarice Feldman re accusations against Judge Roy Moore, which I found via Google searches. Wictor's twitter posts containing analyses and comments re Judge Moore resonate and ring true with me.
                    John!

                    Great to hear from you!

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                      I'd laugh harder if I didn't think it'd guarantee a worse grammar fail of my own.
                      Mea culpa. Edit fail between my initial response and my final response.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                        I'd laugh harder if I didn't think it'd guarantee a worse grammar fail of my own.
                        Their's is always that.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          They were, but who is going to provide for the family in the meantime when pop is dead, and the kids aren't old enough to take on that responsibility?
                          On the other hand.... who's going to take care of the children when mom's dead and pop's busy working?
                          I suppose children from a previous marriage could, assuming they were old enough. Perhaps this is why the warnings against remarrying in that era arose. Children from a previous marriage may not have been inclined to take full care of someone they did not feel a biological connection to.
                          ...hence Jesus commending Mary's care to John.
                          The Protoevangelium of James is clearly apocryphal, and Jerome, while agreeing with the Protoevangelium on Mary's perpetual virginity, believed that Jesus's "brothers" were actually his cousins rather than Joseph's children from a previous marriage. I'm not so concerned with what 19th century Protestants thought of the idea of Mary's perpetual virginity, I'm more concerned with the scriptural basis for it, and how that lines up with New Testament scholarship on the subject. According to Richard Bauckham in Jude and the Relatives of Jesus in the Early Church, most modern scholars hold the view that Mary was not a perpetual virgin, and that she bore Joseph's children after Jesus was born. This is the view that even Catholic scholar John P. Meier holds.
                          I'm not especially fond of modern scholarship, given its heavily skeptical stance (that includes Catholic scholars, as they can hold all sorts of outlandish views while still being considered Catholic).
                          I get the feeling that it's the Orthodox view that Joseph was previously married with children, so you sort of feel you must tow the denominational line, is that correct? For the record, I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility, but I don't think there's as much going for it as the idea that Joseph and Mary had other children.
                          I view the possibility that Joseph was previously married with children to be most in accord with the available (NT) evidence. I'm sort of put out that you view me as that rabidly partisan. I didn't convert just because.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Their's is always that.
                            Now your getting the hang of it! I always new you'd get they're.





















                            Admit it. You cringed just a bt reading the sentence above

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Now your getting the hang of it! I always new you'd get they're.





















                              Admit it. You cringed just a bt reading the sentence above
                              I even blew my 'blow it'! I meant to type "Their is always that", then decided to change it to a contraction version of their, and forgot to get rid of the "is".
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I even blew my 'blow it'! I meant to type "Their is always that", then decided to change it to a contraction version of their, and forgot to get rid of the "is".
                                Speaking of blowing contractions....

                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                ...not a single one let's out a scream or any other sound.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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