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  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    It's not about not being able to function - it's about possessing the required documentation, and being able to afford the cost.
    So, help them!

    Come on folks - if you're going to refute a position - at least start by accurately reflecting it? It makes no sense to "refute" a position I am not taking.

    At least, it doesn't to me...
    Why on God's green earth would we want to have people who WANTED to vote, but couldn't because they're not "legit"? It doesn't have to be an either or -- it can be "let's require photo ID - and make sure that's available to everybody who wants to vote".
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Why does everyone keep changing my words to "blacks don't have IDs?" At no point did I say that, imply it, or claim it.

      If you're going to refute a position - it helps if you actually refute the position taken.
      I seem to remember you saying a couple times in this thread that the ID issue mostly affect the poor who are disproportionately minorities (and since blacks are the greatest racial minority, makes sense you'd be suggesting black people). People are probably gleaning the implication/claim you're suggesting you never committed from your posts #1243 and #1418 (among others).

      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      It's not about not being able to function - it's about possessing the required documentation, and being able to afford the cost.

      Come on folks - if you're going to refute a position - at least start by accurately reflecting it? It makes no sense to "refute" a position I am not taking.

      At least, it doesn't to me...
      CP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he believes that the concept of function is tied up in the concept of acquiring ID, so it's not that he's exactly attempting to refute a position you're not taking, rather he's looking at your position, and responding to what your position seems to imply about the nature of ID acquisition.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        CP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he believes that the concept of function is tied up in the concept of acquiring ID, so it's not that he's exactly attempting to refute a position you're not taking, rather he's looking at your position, and responding to what your position seems to imply about the nature of ID acquisition.
        Correction not necessary.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Why does everyone keep changing my words to "blacks don't have IDs?"
          Because they can't dent your actual argument and don't want to admit it.
          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

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          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            I registered to vote without an ID...
            so you just walked into the registration office and signed up with no ID?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              so you just walked into the registration office and signed up with no ID?
              In Texas, you can mail in a form, but the 'validation' comes when you go to vote. You must show a photo ID that matches the information you mailed in.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Why does everyone keep changing my words to "blacks don't have IDs?" At no point did I say that, imply it, or claim it.

                If you're going to refute a position - it helps if you actually refute the position taken.


                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                Meanwhile, voter ID laws are most likely (again shown to be true) to disenfranchise the poor and ethnic minorities


                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  In Texas, you can mail in a form, but the 'validation' comes when you go to vote. You must show a photo ID that matches the information you mailed in.
                  In my state you register to vote at the driver's license bureau when you get your license or photo ID. You have to prove you are a US Citizen, a resident of the state and of the county where you have to have lived for at least 30 days. And you have to show ID when you vote and sign a log.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    In my state you register to vote at the driver's license bureau when you get your license or photo ID. You have to prove you are a US Citizen, a resident of the state and of the county where you have to have lived for at least 30 days. And you have to show ID when you vote and sign a log.
                    I wish it were so here in California I bet we do have voter fraud since there is no way to tell that the California drivers license someone has is one given to a non citizens or citizen. We also have the Motor Voter law and you do not have to show you are a citizen of the U.S. just show that valid California drivers license you just got that is passed out to citizens and non citizens alike without any notation on whether you are a citizen or not. Poll workers in California are forbidden to ask for I.D. I should know I've worked at the polls in every major election since 2009. so don't tell me their is no danger or voter fraud has not happened you can bet it has happened here in California but there is no way to tell do to the idiots we have running our state.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      In my state you register to vote at the driver's license bureau when you get your license or photo ID. You have to prove you are a US Citizen, a resident of the state and of the county where you have to have lived for at least 30 days. And you have to show ID when you vote and sign a log.
                      You would think that the qualifications to vote in a national election would be the same across states, but it appears not. And the "mail in your ballot" stuff in some states (Oregon, Washington, Colorado), and "voting online" in others complicates it further.

                      More than 30 states offer online voting, but experts warn it isn’t secure

                      The popularity of voting online is growing and will be in place for the presidential election in more than 30 states, primarily for voters living overseas or serving in the military.

                      But security experts and some senior Obama administration officials fear there is not enough protection for any ballots transmitted over the Internet. They are warning states that any kind of online voting is not yet secure and most likely will not be for years to come.

                      “We believe that online voting, especially online voting in large scale, introduces great risk into the election system by threatening voters’ expectations of confidentiality, accountability and security of their votes and provides an avenue for malicious actors to manipulate the voting results,” Neil Jenkins, an official in the Office of Cybersecurity and Communications at the Department of Homeland Security, said at a conference of the Election Verification Network this spring.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        You would think that the qualifications to vote in a national election would be the same across states, but it appears not. And the "mail in your ballot" stuff in some states (Oregon, Washington, Colorado), and "voting online" in others complicates it further.

                        More than 30 states offer online voting, but experts warn it isn’t secure

                        The popularity of voting online is growing and will be in place for the presidential election in more than 30 states, primarily for voters living overseas or serving in the military.

                        But security experts and some senior Obama administration officials fear there is not enough protection for any ballots transmitted over the Internet. They are warning states that any kind of online voting is not yet secure and most likely will not be for years to come.

                        “We believe that online voting, especially online voting in large scale, introduces great risk into the election system by threatening voters’ expectations of confidentiality, accountability and security of their votes and provides an avenue for malicious actors to manipulate the voting results,” Neil Jenkins, an official in the Office of Cybersecurity and Communications at the Department of Homeland Security, said at a conference of the Election Verification Network this spring.
                        Since voting is a sacred privilege (heck DUTY) for US Citizens, it should be take very seriously. Every effort should be taken to make sure that only those qualified are voting. This is the very foundation of our government and should not be just so relaxed that anyone can vote without proving they are a citizen and resident of the state and county they are voting in. A valid photo ID is not asking too much. If some citizens are kept from voting because they can't prove they are citizens, then that is the price that is to be paid to keep those who are not citizens from taking advantage of our rights. We should like you say, make efforts to help those who slip through the cracks get their ID so they can vote. Not just make it so anyone can vote.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Since voting is a sacred privilege (heck DUTY) for US Citizens, it should be take very seriously. Every effort should be taken to make sure that only those qualified are voting. This is the very foundation of our government and should not be just so relaxed that anyone can vote without proving they are a citizen and resident of the state and county they are voting in. A valid photo ID is not asking too much. If some citizens are kept from voting because they can't prove they are citizens, then that is the price that is to be paid to keep those who are not citizens from taking advantage of our rights. We should like you say, make efforts to help those who slip through the cracks get their ID so they can vote. Not just make it so anyone can vote.
                          Yeah, liberals want a background check and national database of people who lawfully own, or seek to own, firearms, but voting is less precious.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yeah, liberals want a background check and national database of people who lawfully own, or seek to own, firearms, but voting is less precious.
                            Er, liberals don't want a background check and national database of people who lawfully own, or seek to own, firearms because they think bearing arms is a precious right.
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                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Er, liberals don't want a background check and national database of people who lawfully own, or seek to own, firearms because they think bearing arms is a precious right.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                It's not about not being able to function - it's about possessing the required documentation, and being able to afford the cost.

                                Come on folks - if you're going to refute a position - at least start by accurately reflecting it? It makes no sense to "refute" a position I am not taking.

                                At least, it doesn't to me...
                                I know I've said this before but if South Africa, where the per capita poverty levels are way higher than in the US, can make it so every adult has photo ID (used to be an ID book, in the process to changing to a smart card), there is no excuse for the US to ensure that every adult has a photo ID and in a manner where cost is not an issue.

                                And in SA you pretty much need your photo ID to do anything not just voting. The first one is free, if you loose it the cost is nominal (ZAR140.....or about US$10) and from memory if you can't afford it the cost can be waived.

                                (In SA all citizens and permanent residents have a photo ID. All others need to have a passport, so also have photo ID)
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