Originally posted by carpedm9587
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostWhat's the difference? Do you have a legal reference to explain the difference?
Btw, I note that you yourself used the phrase "grossly negligent."
The bottom line is that the terms "grossly negligent" and "criminally negligent" are essentially synonymous. "Extremely careless" is not even a legal term, as far as I have been able to determine. Grossly negligent carries with it the concept that the actions were not only careless/negligent, but that there is reason to believe the person in question knew of the defficiency and ought to have taken steps to correct it to avoid a violation of statute.
That is the crux of the discussion here. Everything I have seen indicates that Clinton simply did not know enough about what email servers were, how they worked, how they were protected, to even be aware of the negligence. That was also apparently Comey's findings - because that is what he said in his statement.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostHe expressed his opinion, nothing more. The fact is, he laid out a clear case of criminal negligence, and any competent prosecutor could have gotten a conviction based on Comey's testimony alone; countless people have been thrown in jail for less. But the fix was in when Loretta Lynch met with Bill Clinton to talk about "grandchildren" and suddenly declared that she would accept Comey's recommendation whether or not to indict.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'm not saying that anyone should sit on their hands. I'm saying that people shouldn't choose the lesser of evils if they're choice still means choosing evil. And while God can make good come from evil, Romans tells us that directly as Lipscomb reminds us, that we shouldn't do evil that good may come of it.
Let's say you have the standard streetcar dilemma. You are in control of a runaway streetcar. You can do nothing, which will end up with the streetcar hitting a mother and her two kids, or you can switch tracks and run over a 10 year old boy. What do you do?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostShe was the SECRETARY OF STATE! You are going to tell me that the SoS of the entire freaking US government is too clueless to understand what classified information is and how to handle it? After training? If that were the case, and our elected officials at the top of the government are that stupid, then we are in a lot more trouble than Clinton merely not giving a crap about it. It is a damn good thing she wasn't elected as President if she is that moronic. right?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThat is the crux of the discussion here. Everything I have seen indicates that Clinton simply did not know enough about what email servers were, how they worked, how they were protected, to even be aware of the negligence.
That was also apparently Comey's findings - because that is what he said in his statement.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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OK - I cannot keep up with the apparent outrage, so I'm going to stop trying. That you all have an axe to grind with Ms. Clinton is clear. That you are reading into Comey's statements what you apparently want to see there is also clear. I am going by his own words and statement: no prosecutor would indict on the basis of the evidence they have, and extremely careless in her choices/actions, but not criminally or grossly negligent - which is the bar the law requires.
That we disagree on this is clear. I'm just repeating myself at this point, so I'll leave the last words to all of you. I promise to read them, but I won't be posting on this further. If you truly feel a need to continue the discussion, please feel free to PM me.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThe legal opinion of the head of the FBI carries a great deal of weight with me, for the same reason you claim the manager of the mall's statement carries a lot of weight with you. He was functioning, in the present (not the past) as the chief office of that organization, had access to all of the physical evidence and investigations, and made the conclusions he areticulated at his conference. I am not in a position to second guess him - nor do I have reason to.
In other words, his own opinion about whether or not Hillary could/should have been indicted directly contradicts the facts as he explained them. Either his facts were wrong, or his opinion was wrong. Which are you going with?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNot how to recognize classified information - and that is anotther huge area of confusion, as to what was marked and how and when. But she was not an IT person and did not have, as best I can tell, a qualified IT person on staff.
I have dealt with people who you would think would be "smart enough to know," and have no clue about the internal workings of an email system. She didn't know, as best I can tell, and did not surround herself with the right people. She was extremely careless - and showed incredibly poor judgment. I see no basis for accusations of "criminal behavior."
Screen%u00252BShot%u00252B2016-09-02%u00252Bat%u00252B3.32.54%u00252BPM.jpgThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOK - I cannot keep up with the apparent outrage,The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOutrage? How bout... flabberghastedness.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostI guess quoting Comey directly and inquiring as to the legal difference between semantically identical phrases is a symptom of my outrage, and I'm just reading into what Comey said.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo - the legal language of "grossly negligent" and "extremely careless" are not the same. In fact, if Comey had originally put "grossly negligent" and the phrase was changed to "extremely careless" and Comey read it as the latter, the message to ME is that he realized "grossly negligent" did not apply and would essentially contradict his original point - that there was insufficient basis for bringing charges. Comey does not strike me as a sloppy man - or an unethical one. So, again, benefit of the doubt until I have cause to question this integrity. I do not have such cause.
The legal term for gross negligence is Lata Culpa.
Black's Law Dictionary:
LATA CULPA Lat. In the law of bailment. Gross fault or neglect; extreme negligence or carelessness,
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostOK - I cannot keep up with the apparent outrage, so I'm going to stop trying. That you all have an axe to grind with Ms. Clinton is clear. That you are reading into Comey's statements what you apparently want to see there is also clear. I am going by his own words and statement: no prosecutor would indict on the basis of the evidence they have, and extremely careless in her choices/actions, but not criminally or grossly negligent - which is the bar the law requires.
That we disagree on this is clear. I'm just repeating myself at this point, so I'll leave the last words to all of you. I promise to read them, but I won't be posting on this further. If you truly feel a need to continue the discussion, please feel free to PM me.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostLipscomb seems to be saying Christians shouldn't get involved in anything worldly or political. That is what I was commenting on. Yet Christians are supposed to be part of God's work in the world. Helping others, making changes for the better. Sometimes that requires voting someone who is not quite as evil in power and working from there.
Let's say you have the standard streetcar dilemma. You are in control of a runaway streetcar. You can do nothing, which will end up with the streetcar hitting a mother and her two kids, or you can switch tracks and run over a 10 year old boy. What do you do?
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