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Hiring Police Officers to Come to Church

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  • Hiring Police Officers to Come to Church

    At my Church Security seminar I attended in Dallas this week, I learned that the experts are highly recommending the hiring of a uniformed police officer to attend Sunday Morning service.

    Still working through how I feel about that.

    They discouraging using Concealed Handgun Licensed individuals unless they are NOT armed (for liability reasons). They only recommend active duty police officers, or honorably retired police officers (because they can carry a firearm 24/7), and at least one of the police officers needs to be in uniform, in a high visibility position.

    My son-in-law happens to be our sound guy right now, is an active duty police officer, and is a member of the multi-jurisdictional SWAT team. The sound booth is slightly elevated, and has a commanding view of the entire auditorium.

    Oh, and I learned a new acronym - highly technical! DLR. "Doesn't Look Right".

    One of the security guys from First Baptist Bellevue (Memphis, TN) was there, and shared an account that happened on Easter Sunday Morning at FBC Bellevue. One of the security team members (an unarmed volunteer woman) saw what she thought was a gun in the pants pocket of a man who also happened to have a backpack. She reported it to their on-duty police officer, who approached the man, and asked, "sir, are you carrying a weapon?" The man put his hands out in a show of compliance, and said, yes, it's in my back right pocket. (Even if he had a CHL, he violated it by allowing the weapon to be visible)

    The police officer said, "OK, I'm going to take the gun, remove the magazine, and put it in your backpack". As the officer was doing this, he found a 300 Blackout Rifle in the man's backpack, and grabbed the backpack to pivot the man into the wall, and detain him. He was very heavily armed with additional magazines, in addition to his .40 Cal Beretta.

    So, even the parking lot attendants, the greeters, the ushers - part of their job is to watch for and report "DLRs".
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    We have a couple of retired and active police who attend our church and carry. I don't see a problem. The problem with having an officer in uniform is that that is the first person a shooter would kill. I prefer incognito...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #3
      So sad that it's come to this.


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        We have a couple of retired and active police who attend our church and carry. I don't see a problem. The problem with having an officer in uniform is that that is the first person a shooter would kill. I prefer incognito...
        Should have both. One hidden among the crowd like an Air Marshall.

        An Church Marshall for God!


        bros_0.jpg

        My brother is a cop and he sometimes went to church in uniform and armed in case he was called out. He also volunteered during collections. The preacher said it was the first church that he was ever in that did collection at gunpoint.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          So sad that it's come to this.
          It really is.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            We have a couple of retired and active police who attend our church and carry. I don't see a problem.
            Yeah, that's not the same as paying somebody to fulfill that role.

            The problem with having an officer in uniform is that that is the first person a shooter would kill. I prefer incognito...
            In our situation, we have a place at the back of the foyer where the main auditorium entry is, and you can see down both hallways for about 70 feet in both directions. Also, to the immediate left is the entry to our children and youth wing, and that's the only in/out to that section. It's a GREAT vantage point.

            And the fact that his patrol vehicle will be parked prominently outside will be another deterrent.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke
              (Even if he had a CHL, he violated it by allowing the weapon to be visible)
              That isn't actually the law in Tennessee.

              If you can afford to pay officers to guard you, there's nothing wrong with it. But the more efficient way of handling matters is encouraging members to carry. (Or just openly carry yourself, to set an example.)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                That isn't actually the law in Tennessee.

                If you can afford to pay officers to guard you, there's nothing wrong with it. But the more efficient way of handling matters is encouraging members to carry. (Or just openly carry yourself, to set an example.)
                Cooler heads need to prevail, and if there were an 'active shooter' situation, what you do NOT need is a bunch of people with guns trying to shoot the bad guy in a target rich environment. On top of that, when the police arrive*, they're looking for a "person with a gun", and it could easily turn into the shootout at the OK Corral.

                *the 'active shooter' phase is generally less than 4 minutes, and it's quite likely the police will arrive after the carnage.

                What is needed is an actual PLAN -- what, exactly, would we do? It actually starts in the parking lot as people arrive - watching for people you don't know, etc. It still needs to be a house of worship, not a national guard armory.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                • #9
                  The Texas church that got shot apparently had a rule against carrying weapons. And it was a man with a weapon that finally stopped it.

                  Nehemiah 4:17
                  They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.

                  Luke 22:36-37
                  Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Cooler heads need to prevail, and if there were an 'active shooter' situation, what you do NOT need is a bunch of people with guns trying to shoot the bad guy in a target rich environment. On top of that, when the police arrive*, they're looking for a "person with a gun", and it could easily turn into the shootout at the OK Corral.

                    *the 'active shooter' phase is generally less than 4 minutes, and it's quite likely the police will arrive after the carnage.

                    What is needed is an actual PLAN -- what, exactly, would we do? It actually starts in the parking lot as people arrive - watching for people you don't know, etc. It still needs to be a house of worship, not a national guard armory.
                    Kevlar pews?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                      The Texas church that got shot apparently had a rule against carrying weapons. And it was a man with a weapon that finally stopped it.
                      I think that's a mistake. But I think the key is training - and the people who you enlist on your security team should be trained well.

                      Nehemiah 4:17
                      They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens, with those that laded, every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon.

                      Luke 22:36-37
                      Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
                      Yeah, we've come a long way from swords.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I went to a church service on Sunday.

                        There were no police officers on duty.
                        There were no armed security guards.
                        There were no uniformed security guards.
                        There were no security team members.
                        There were no volunteers doing security duty.
                        There were no gun carriers.
                        There were no guns.

                        There was an 'axe' (for music) and some knives (for sponge cake with caramel icing).
                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Roy View Post
                          I went to a church service on Sunday.

                          There were no police officers on duty.
                          There were no armed security guards.
                          There were no uniformed security guards.
                          There were no security team members.
                          There were no volunteers doing security duty.
                          There were no gun carriers.
                          There were no guns.

                          There was an 'axe' (for music) and some knives (for sponge cake with caramel icing).
                          How do you know there weren't any "gun carriers?"
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            (Even if he had a CHL, he violated it by allowing the weapon to be visible)
                            Wait.

                            So you can open carry without a permit, but if you have a CHL license you HAVE to conceal it and can't open carry?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              Wait.

                              So you can open carry without a permit, but if you have a CHL license you HAVE to conceal it and can't open carry?
                              I was wondering if anybody would catch that. Since January, 2016, you can "open carry" in Texas, but businesses have a right to restrict that. In the past, if you wanted to restrict somebody from carrying on your property (like a restaurant) there was specific wording on a standardized sign that had to be clearly displayed. Recently, houses of worship were made exempt from that.

                              As it is now, churches and businesses can deny entry to persons openly carrying, whether they have a permit or not, even if they don't display the "30.06 and/or 30.07" signage.

                              It's kinda crazy, but it's generally agreed that - even though IN THE PAST, CHL holders could not legally 'open carry', now that's only governed by the establishment you visit.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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