Should Al Franken Resign?

[Teallaura]

Ok, it doesn't look that way to me at all. It looks to me like his hands are hovering a bit away from her vest, and it's only forced perspective that might make it look like he's touching her. And that's a big deal, because while pretending to touch someone in a sexual manner without their awareness is creepy and disturbing, it's not nearly as disturbing as actually touching someone in a sexual manner without their awareness. Touch is powerful. I had assumed that everyone here was in agreement that she wasn't actually physically touched in the photo.

Oh, and by the way, assuming no turbulence, C-17s are actually pretty smooth. Or at least they were when I was taking them.

I reread part of the article. Tweeden alleges that he in fact touched her and that it was retaliatory for her avoidance of him subsequent to the kissing incident.

[Cow Poke]

I reread part of the article. Tweeden alleges that he in fact touched her and that it was retaliatory for her avoidance of him subsequent to the kissing incident.

But how could she know that if she was asleep? Does she allege that he touched her so firmly that it woke her up?

[Cow Poke]

Eh, whether she could feel it or not, touch is still a major matter of importance to me.

We don't disagree.

[Teallaura]

But how could she know that if she was asleep? Does she allege that he touched her so firmly that it woke her up?

She is evidently going by the picture and the word of the photographer if I understood correctly. No, she did not wake up.

But unless someone comes forward and says "She was playing along and in on the joke' which has not even come close to the facts so far, I don't think it matters.

[Cow Poke]

She is evidently going by the picture and the word of the photographer if I understood correctly. No, she did not wake up.

OK, makes sense.

But unless someone comes forward and says "She was playing along and in on the joke' which has not even come close to the facts so far, I don't think it matters.

And the fact that he posed for the photograph and made sure she had a copy of it.... what a creep.

[lilpixieofterror]

Technically, of course, he didn't touch her breasts, but probably touched the flak vest. A C-17 is not the smoothest flight, so even if his hands were "almost touching", it's hard to imagine he didn't touch the flak vest at some point.

A C-17 is pretty smooth for the most part. You might be thinking of a C-130. Those can drop 500 feet in altitude, in seconds.

[Cow Poke]

A C-17 is pretty smooth for the most part. You might be thinking of a C-130. Those can drop 500 feet in altitude, in seconds.

Maybe I just had a wild ride. I know my C's.

[alaskazimm]

Maybe I just had a wild ride. I know my C's.

But do you mind your P's and Q's?

[Cow Poke]

But do you mind your P's and Q's?

Not often enough.

[lilpixieofterror]

Maybe I just had a wild ride. I know my C's.

Military planes tend to be a little tougher of a ride in general. I’ve woke up floating above the flight deck on a few occasions. Worse was on a C-130 where I got a what seemed like a good second of weightlessness and a good foot off the flight deck. That wasn’t a good landing to say the least.

[Teallaura]

Any plane can hit turbulence and it doesn't matter - even if the plane had been unstable, that photo clearly shows him clutching (or clutching at) something he had no right to be doing.

Look, Franken hasn't put up a defense that would exonerate him (if true) about that photo. He apologized which confirms that he did something. The real issue is what he did prior to the picture. The fact that he made the picture substantiates somewhat the claim about the kiss.

More troubling are the additional accusations and the relatively recent time frame.

None of which should matter to his job unless and until he is either successfully sued or convicted.

[rogue06]

Any plane can hit turbulence and it doesn't matter - even if the plane had been unstable, that photo clearly shows him clutching (or clutching at) something he had no right to be doing.

Look, Franken hasn't put up a defense that would exonerate him (if true) about that photo. He apologized which confirms that he did something. The real issue is what he did prior to the picture. The fact that he made the picture substantiates somewhat the claim about the kiss.

More troubling are the additional accusations and the relatively recent time frame.

None of which should matter to his job unless and until he is either successfully sued or convicted.

He has not only not denied it but said it was meant as a joke. I posted Stephen Colbert's excellent response yesterday to that explanation:

It was Stephen Colbert that had the perfect take down for the defense that Franken is a comedian and trying to be funny (an excuse Franken himself has offered for the picture)

Source: Meyers, Colbert Skewer Al Franken’s Sexual Harassment Apology

Colbert devoted time to Franken’s initial succinct apology — the senator said the photo “was intended to be funny, but wasn’t” — in the Late Show’s opening monologue Thursday night. “Okay, intended to be funny but wasn’t? Your movie Stuart Saves His Family was ‘intended to be funny, but wasn’t.’ That photo was intended to embarrass her. That’s why he did it while she was asleep.”



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Meanwhile, two more women have stepped forward to accuse Franken of improper sexual conduct. From MSNBC:

Source: Two More Women Accuse Sen. Al Franken Of Inappropriate Touching

One woman told HuffPost that Franken had grabbed her backside at an event honoring women

Two more women have told HuffPost that Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) touched their butts in separate incidents. These are the third and fourth such allegations against Franken in the past week. Leeann Tweeden, a radio host, wrote last week that Franken had kissed and groped her without her consent during a 2006 USO tour. On Monday, Lindsay Menz accused Franken of groping her at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010.

The two additional women, who said they were not familiar with each others’ stories, both spoke on condition of anonymity. But their stories, which describe events during Franken’s first campaign for the Senate, are remarkably similar — and both women have been telling them privately for years.

In a statement to HuffPost, Franken said, “It’s difficult to respond to anonymous accusers, and I don’t remember those campaign events.”

The first woman, who spoke to HuffPost on condition of anonymity because she’s worried she’ll be harassed online for making the allegation, said Franken groped her when they posed for a photo after a June 25, 2007, event hosted by the Minnesota Women’s Political Caucus in Minneapolis.

“My story is eerily similar to Lindsay Menz’s story,” the first woman said. “He grabbed my buttocks during a photo op.”

The second woman told HuffPost that Franken cupped her butt with his hand at a 2008 Democratic fundraiser in Minneapolis, then suggested the two visit the bathroom together. She spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear that the allegation could affect her position at work.

“My immediate reaction was disgust,” the second woman said. “But my secondary reaction was disappointment. I was excited to be there and to meet him. And so to have that happen really deflated me. It felt like: ‘Is this really the person who is going to be in a position of power to represent our community?’”

‘We Stood Next To Each Other ... And Down His Hand Went’

The first woman, a 38-year-old book editor who was living in Minneapolis at the time, told HuffPost that she had just finished performing with a feminist choir at the Women’s Political Caucus event, which Franken and his wife, Franni Bryson, attended. After the ceremony, she and other members of the choir approached him for photos.

“My mother loves Al Franken. She listened to Air America [on which Franken had a radio show] every day,” the first woman said. ”I saw him and asked if we could take a photo together for my mother, and we stood next to each other ... and down his hand went.”

HuffPost spoke to two sources close to the first woman who corroborated her account.

One fellow choir member, Sarah, remembers not only being there for the groping incident but hearing another choir member say that Franken wouldn’t stop looking at her chest.

Ten years ago, it was easier to shrug off predatory behavior as “boys being boys,” Sarah said, especially when that predatory behavior came from a political ally.

“At the time ... people weren’t as willing to speak against people they felt like were on their side,” Sarah said. “It’s really disappointing. And it’s crappy. Ten years ago we were also at an age where there was still a feeling of powerlessness, or that boys will be boys.”

People are saying that this is a right-wing conspiracy. It’s not. I’m a liberal person. ... I voted for him after this happened.

The first woman’s best friend, who likewise wished to remain anonymous, remembers hearing about the groping incident the day after it happened.

“She was in this all-women’s choir and he was at an event where she performed, and she told me that he basically grabbed her [derriere] ,” the best friend said. “It was a ‘Can you believe this happened to me?’ kind of thing.”

The first woman wanted to tell her story because Franken is “a serial groper,” she said.

“Only two people have come forward, and people are saying that this is a right-wing conspiracy,” she said. “It’s not. I’m a liberal person. ... I voted for him after this happened.”

‘I Was Completely Mortified’

The second woman, who said she was groped at a fundraiser, told HuffPost it took place in the fall of 2008 at the Loft Literary Center in Minneapolis. She was excited about attending the event and meeting someone she wanted to support.

“I had never attended anything like that,” she said.

She and her friends found Franken and introduced themselves to him.

“I shook his hand, and he put his arm around my waist and held it there,” the second woman said. “Then he moved it lower and cupped my butt.”

“I was completely mortified,” she added.

In order to escape the situation, the woman excused herself to go to the bathroom. At that point, she said, Franken leaned in and suggested that he accompany her. She grabbed her friend and fled to the bathroom without him.



[*The story continues at the link below*]

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To be fair, IMHBAO, anonymous accusers should be taken with a grain of salt.

[carpedm9587]

I have been following the accusations against Mr. Franken. As more and more women come forward, I find the accusations against him increasingly credible. I hope they do hold a complete investigation, as I hope they do for Moore, Trump, Clinton, O'Reilly, Rose, Weinstein, Spacey, Hoffman, and every other person who has recently been identified as an abuser - as someone who used his/her (mostly/all? his) power to take advantage of or sexually impose themselves on others. We live in a world where women (and some men) have kept silent about this treatment for a long, long time, largely because of the attitudes they face when they come forward. It is refreshing to see more and more women and men feeling empowered to step forward, and more and more big names taking a fall (or at least a hit) as a result. It is true that I cannot take a stand about the guilt/innocence of any of these people, because I was not there. But it is not hard for me to believe that powerful people, especially men, develop a sense of entitlement, and abuse it.

This should not be a partisan issue. If we find ourselves defending those from "our team" and assuming guilt of those from "their team," something is very, very badly wrong.

[Cow Poke]

I have been following the accusations against Mr. Franken. As more and more women come forward, I find the accusations against him increasingly credible. I hope they do hold a complete investigation, as I hope they do for Moore, Trump, Clinton, O'Reilly, Rose, Weinstein, Spacey, Hoffman, and every other person who has recently been identified as an abuser - as someone who used his/her (mostly/all? his) power to take advantage of or sexually impose themselves on others. We live in a world where women (and some men) have kept silent about this treatment for a long, long time, largely because of the attitudes they face when they come forward. It is refreshing to see more and more women and men feeling empowered to step forward, and more and more big names taking a fall (or at least a hit) as a result. It is true that I cannot take a stand about the guilt/innocence of any of these people, because I was not there. But it is not hard for me to believe that powerful people, especially men, develop a sense of entitlement, and abuse it.

This should not be a partisan issue. If we find ourselves defending those from "our team" and assuming guilt of those from "their team," something is very, very badly wrong.

I think the media tends to be more liberal, and very aggressively goes after somebody like Moore, but Franken seems to get a pass (up till recently, anyway) because he issued a "cover my butt" apology.

So, yeah, the same standard should be applied to all, and the thing that really bothers me is this alleged slush fund that Washington DC biggies can draw on to pay off their accusers.

[Mountain Man]

...the thing that really bothers me is this alleged slush fund that Washington DC biggies can draw on to pay off their accusers.

And then they can slap them with a gag order so that they can never talk about it.