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Should Al Franken Resign?

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  • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
    Seems pretty doubtful as two of the friends who have come to the same view as me and left (one being Sam, the other's username here I don't recall from years ago) were relatively centrist and didn't subscribe to my political views. Jaecp I guess you could argue was 'extreme left' in the sense that he was/is a committed democrat/progressive.

    I think it's just you guys. I don't have these kinds of issues on other sites.
    Sam was only "centrist" relative to your extreme left-wing fanaticism. The dude was actually pretty darn liberal politically which conflicted with his conservative religious views and led to serious cognitive dissonance and an eventual, one might say inevitable, emotional breakdown. As I recall, his goodbye rant was pretty epic.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Unfortunately, for Moore - they were apparently the rural districts we were discussing. Once the metros came in, Jones popped into the lead and is currently the projected winner - though with less than a 1% margin.

      Still, I am AMAZED that Alabama seems to have elected a Democrat. That bodes quite well for some rebalancing in Congress in 2018.

      Of course - we went to bed in the 1940s thinking Dewey had won - so Moore still may pull it off...
      I think it will all work out - the liberals can pitch hissies about other things now.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Very interesting how you et. al. can recognize there is political corruption, and then support the politically corrupt. Trump and his appointed cronies, along with the republican congress are doing the will of the corporations, the banks, and the extremely wealthy right now, so in what sense are the corporations the masters of the democrats. Weird how the conservative brain works!
        Jimmy, maybe I support Trump like you support pedophilia.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          Sam was only "centrist" relative to your extreme left-wing fanaticism. The dude was actually pretty darn liberal politically which conflicted with his conservative religious views and led to serious cognitive dissonance and an eventual, one might say inevitable, emotional breakdown. As I recall, his goodbye rant was pretty epic.
          My discussions with him showed his religious views to be far from conservative.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            My discussions with him showed his religious views to be far from conservative.
            I suppose I should say that he ascribed to a conservative religion which he tried to twist to fit with this liberal values, and eventually his brain went *POP*.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              He didn't.

              Just goes to show even Alabamastanis could be expected to put up with only so much.
              I have to admit - that news started my day with a smile!

              I know it is a disappointment for folks here. I just cannot (honestly) say "sorry for your loss." I found Moore a reprehensible candidate.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                I think it will all work out - the liberals can pitch hissies about other things now.


                I think "pitching hissies" is not particularly limited to any one party or political spectrum...

                As evidence - I point to the recent exchange about Ms. Clinton...
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post


                  I think "pitching hissies" is not particularly limited to any one party or political spectrum...

                  As evidence - I point to the recent exchange about Ms. Clinton...
                  Sure. But I have a sneaky suspicion that the whole email thing will be revisited, because of the taint of the FBI hate-texter. Hillary is the gift that keeps on giving.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Seems pretty doubtful as two of the friends who have come to the same view as me and left (one being Sam, the other's username here I don't recall from years ago) were relatively centrist and didn't subscribe to my political views. Jaecp I guess you could argue was 'extreme left' in the sense that he was/is a committed democrat/progressive.

                    I think it's just you guys. I don't have these kinds of issues on other sites.
                    I agree. You should go where you are appreciated.

                    bye and good luck.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I have to admit - that news started my day with a smile!

                      I know it is a disappointment for folks here. I just cannot (honestly) say "sorry for your loss." I found Moore a reprehensible candidate.
                      I was always pretty neutral about him. I never even heard of the guy until this controversy came out. My stance is that IF the allegations are true and he was dating 14 year olds then he is disgusting. But I have always been suspicious of the allegations and especially the yearbook thing. It seemed to me that it was all a big show to discredit him right before the election. I think the evidence needs to be investigated. If found to be true he should leave public office for good. If not, he should sue the hell out of the Washington Post and the women who made the allegations.

                      But regardless, he was poison after the allegations came out and should have stepped aside from the race if he could not show himself innocent before the election.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Sure. But I have a sneaky suspicion that the whole email thing will be revisited, because of the taint of the FBI hate-texter. Hillary is the gift that keeps on giving.
                        Yes, she is. It's one of the reasons I think it's time for her to bow out and let the party move on. There is nothing she can do about the degree to which she is hated by the right - and nothing she will do will ever change it.

                        I have to admit, however, that I am flummoxed when someone on the right then expresses surprise at the level of hatred the left has for Trump. The situation, from my perspective, is essentially identical. Trump represents pretty much everything the left hates - and continually makes his disdain for the left known. If the right is having a hard time understanding the left's hatred for Trump, perhaps they should like internally to see their hatred for Clinton and recognize themselves in the dynamic?

                        My dislike (I'm not sure I would call it hatred) for Trump is not based on his political policies. I recognize each party is going to bring their policies with them to the office they hold, and each side SHOULD have a chance to push their case forward in a democratic government. Trump's policies are a reason for me not to vote for him, not a reason to dislike him or hope that he fails spectacularly, even if we feel some pain in the short term as a result.

                        My dislike for him, my refusal to refer to him as "president," and my rejection of him as representing me (which I have never done for ANY president before Trump) is rooted in his person. His narcicism, his thin skin, his incessant self-praise, his adolescent name calling, his race-baiting, his mysogyny, his public bullying, his near-total lack of statemanship, his need to "get even" for even the smallest imagined slight, his incessant lying (even when there is physical evidence), his continuous attack on the fourth estate, and his obvious lack of respect for the office he holds. His election sent a message far and wide to our children that these tactics "work." He is being emulated by many. He is widely admired by the right for not being "PC" but his lack of "PC" is, to me, nothing more than a cover for rudeness and behavior I would NEVER tolerate from even my youngest children. If my children tweeted as he does, they would lose their phone and Internet access. If they spoke to others as he does, I would haul them by their ears to apologize. That a 71 year old man, in the highest office in the land, cannot behave better than a schoolyard bully is anathema to me.

                        So I am willing to experience short term pain if it means he will be out of office, a failed president, in 3 years. I hope they do NOT impeach him. I hope he continues to gut our ecology, gut our regulatory structure, enrich himself and the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class, make himself a pariah on the world stage, insult women, insult minorities, and do all of these things I find reprehensible. I hope he continues to do exactly what he is doing. Yes, as a nation, we will experience harms. But when he goes down in flames, the message will go out far and wide that his adolescent tactics DON'T work. That the highest office in the land SHOULD be held by someone worthy of that office.

                        It my profound hope that the Republican Party will come to its senses and field a statesman in 2020. Same for the Democratic Party.
                        Last edited by carpedm9587; 12-13-2017, 08:56 AM.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          I know it is a disappointment for folks here. I just cannot (honestly) say "sorry for your loss." I found Moore a reprehensible candidate.
                          Eh, not really disappointed. I kind of expected this when the false allegations were unleashed six-weeks before the election, and the Washington establishment did everything in its power to sow doubt in the minds of Alabama voters.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            My dislike (I'm not sure I would call it hatred) for Trump is not based on his political policies. I recognize each party is going to bring their policies with them to the office they hold...

                            ...I hope he continues to gut our ecology, gut our regulatory structure, enrich himself and the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class
                            I would tend to view those things as core Republican policies. So I'm a little confused when you say you don't dislike him for his policies and then seemingly list some policies...?

                            I guess I hold the opposite view - I think policies are the more important thing than being statesmanlike because they affect sooo many people's lives in sooo many ways. And there's great danger in having a politician who's so charismatic and statesmanlike that people just love the image of them and hearing them speak, and ignore the potentially horrible policies that the politician is putting a smiling face on. Nobody can sell a horrific policy or a horrible war as well as a politician who has a good smile and who can give a good speech and is well liked. I feel like ideally politics should have boring politicians and policy wonks should hash out good policy in relatively dry discussions.

                            Obviously Trump's incompetence, severely limited intellect, and apparent inability/unwillingness to read documents or to put in a full day's work, are significantly impacting his abilities to enact policies though. Although it doesn't seem to stop him putting crazy zealots into his cabinet who have proceeded to attempt to put entire government departments through a shredder.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I would tend to view those things as core Republican policies. So I'm a little confused when you say you don't dislike him for his policies and then seemingly list some policies...?
                              Yeah - I did sort of muddle my reasons for not voting for him with my dislike for his personal attributes. Sort of got caught up in the rant

                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I guess I hold the opposite view - I think policies are the more important thing than being statesmanlike because they affect sooo many people's lives in sooo many ways. And there's great danger in having a politician who's so charismatic and statesmanlike that people just love the image of them and hearing them speak, and ignore the potentially horrible policies that the politician is putting a smiling face on. Nobody can sell a horrific policy or a horrible war as well as a politician who has a good smile and who can give a good speech and is well liked. I feel like ideally politics should have boring politicians and policy wonks should hash out good policy in relatively dry discussions.
                              Interesting idea. But a good leader is also effectively charasmatic - or they tend NOT to get others to follow. It then depends on us to elect people that have these skills AND a good moral fiber.

                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              Obviously Trump's incompetence, severely limited intellect, and apparent inability/unwillingness to read documents or to put in a full day's work, are significantly impacting his abilities to enact policies though. Although it doesn't seem to stop him putting crazy zealots into his cabinet who have proceeded to attempt to put entire government departments through a shredder.
                              Yeah - I forgot to mention his inconsistency and hypocrisy.
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Yes, she is. It's one of the reasons I think it's time for her to bow out and let the party move on. There is nothing she can do about the degree to which she is hated by the right - and nothing she will do will ever change it.

                                I have to admit, however, that I am flummoxed when someone on the right then expresses surprise at the level of hatred the left has for Trump. The situation, from my perspective, is essentially identical. Trump represents pretty much everything the left hates - and continually makes his disdain for the left known. If the right is having a hard time understanding the left's hatred for Trump, perhaps they should like internally to see their hatred for Clinton and recognize themselves in the dynamic?
                                I'm not at all surprised the left hates Trump. Initially, I think, the thing that attracted many people to Trump was his attacks on 'political correctness', which truly had run amuck. I really didn't know much about him.

                                My dislike (I'm not sure I would call it hatred) for Trump is not based on his political policies. I recognize each party is going to bring their policies with them to the office they hold, and each side SHOULD have a chance to push their case forward in a democratic government. Trump's policies are a reason for me not to vote for him, not a reason to dislike him or hope that he fails spectacularly, even if we feel some pain in the short term as a result.
                                And I don't hate Hillary. Yes, I would have to admit I dislike her - I think she's phony as a three dollar bill, and will do anything or say anything to stay in office. You're aware, perhaps, of the multitude of reports on how she treats "the little people"?

                                My dislike for him, my refusal to refer to him as "president,"
                                See, I think that's over the top. I wasn't wild about Obama, but he was, indeed, President.

                                and my rejection of him as representing me (which I have never done for ANY president before Trump) is rooted in his person. His narcicism, his thin skin, his incessant self-praise,
                                You realize you're describing Obama?

                                his adolescent name calling,
                                That gets old.

                                his race-baiting, his mysogyny, his public bullying, his near-total lack of statemanship, his need to "get even" for even the smallest imagined slight, his incessant lying (even when there is physical evidence), his continuous attack on the fourth estate, and his obvious lack of respect for the office he holds. His election sent a message far and wide to our children that these tactics "work." He is being emulated by many. He is widely admired by the right for not being "PC" but his lack of "PC" is, to me, nothing more than a cover for rudeness and behavior I would NEVER tolerate from even my youngest children. If my children tweeted as he does, they would lose their phone and Internet access. If they spoke to others as he does, I would haul them by their ears to apologize. That a 71 year old man, in the highest office in the land, cannot behave better than a schoolyard bully is anathema to me.

                                So I am willing to experience short term pain if it means he will be out of office, a failed president, in 3 years. I hope they do NOT impeach him. I hope he continues to gut our ecology, gut our regulatory structure, enrich himself and the wealthy at the expense of the poor and middle class, make himself a pariah on the world stage, insult women, insult minorities, and do all of these things I find reprehensible. I hope he continues to do exactly what he is doing. Yes, as a nation, we will experience harms. But when he goes down in flames, the message will go out far and wide that his adolescent tactics DON'T work. That the highest office in the land SHOULD be held by someone worthy of that office.

                                It my profound hope that the Republican Party will come to its senses and field a statesman in 2020. Same for the Democratic Party.
                                I'm not a Trump defender, and I'm not proud of his persona. I am thankful that we didn't get a leftist SCOTUS member, and I'm thankful Hillary is not POTUS, but, other than that, I have to tolerate who Trump is.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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