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  • #61
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Yep. And they counted part-time work as a job created, even if it was only a few hours a week.
    Thanks to their mandating that full time meant 30 hours or more a week and that they had to provide health care for them. Anyone with any real experience in the private sector immediately knew what was going to happen. Employers promptly started hiring people for 25 to 26 hours a week. As a result folks receiving government assistance, especially food stamps, started to skyrocket. And then you had ninnies like Nancy Pelosi going around telling everyone that this was actually better for the economy.
    Last edited by rogue06; 11-21-2017, 03:20 PM. Reason: Forgot underlined part

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      Actually - the stats say government jobs shrank by 341,000 under Obama. Private sector jobs grew.
      When you slash the military to the bone you tend to get rid of a lot of government jobs.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Yes... that was my point. U3 considers someone who works a few hours a week to be "employed".
        Umm.. that's not how I read the data. AFAICT, U3 simply excludes part time people from the data altogether. It looks at the percentage of people who are employed full time out of the body of people who want to be employed full time. I think you are misreading the data. Of course, it is always possible that I am. Where are you getting your information that part time people are being counted in the data? Why would they do that when they are counted in U6?
        Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-21-2017, 02:07 PM.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          When you slash the military to the bone you tend to get rid of a lot of government jobs.
          Umm... these stats seem to suggest otherwise (https://historyinpieces.com/research...nnel-1954-2014). U.S. military staffing has been essentially flat since the mid 1990s, with a mild "bump" around 911. Funding has also been flat as a percentage of GDP over that period - which means funding has increased as GDP has increased (except for the blip of the Great Recession - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending). It is better funded (as a percentage of GDP) than most armies in the world. Given our status as the country with the highest GDP, that is saying a lot. It is also one of the few government agencies that has been largely without an audit for decades.

          I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.
          Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-21-2017, 02:11 PM.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Umm... these stats seem to suggest otherwise (https://historyinpieces.com/research...nnel-1954-2014). U.S. military staffing has been essentially flat since the mid 1990s, with a mild "bump" around 911. Funding has also been flat as a percentage of GDP over that period - which means funding has increased as GDP has increased (except for the blip of the Great Recession - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending). It is better funded (as a percentage of GDP) than most armies in the world. Given our status as the country with the highest GDP, that is saying a lot. It is also one of the few government agencies that has been largely without an audit for decades.

            I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.
            IIRC Obama even acknowledged that the number of military personnel dropped by 100,000 during his term in office.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Umm..
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Umm..
              That's two Umms in a row - one more, and you're out!
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                That's two Umms in a row - one more, and you're out!
                I suggest an "er" or "uh"

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  IIRC Obama even acknowledged that the number of military personnel dropped by 100,000 during his term in office.
                  Yes - recall that I noted there was a "bump" in staffing and funding around 911, and it returned to the pre 911 levels by the end of his term. If you look at the stats, the staffing is essentially unchanged from the mid 90s through 2016, except for that bump.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    I suggest an "er" or "uh"
                    Ummm.... no
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Ummm.... no
                      The "m count" in the Umms has escalated! Soon, there will be all out war, and mankind will perish from the face of the earth.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        The "m count" in the Umms has escalated! Soon, there will be all out war, and mankind will perish from the face of the earth.
                        So tempting...
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          So tempting...
                          mmmkay.jpg

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Umm... these stats seem to suggest otherwise (https://historyinpieces.com/research...nnel-1954-2014). U.S. military staffing has been essentially flat since the mid 1990s, with a mild "bump" around 911. Funding has also been flat as a percentage of GDP over that period - which means funding has increased as GDP has increased (except for the blip of the Great Recession - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending). It is better funded (as a percentage of GDP) than most armies in the world. Given our status as the country with the highest GDP, that is saying a lot. It is also one of the few government agencies that has been largely without an audit for decades.

                            I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.
                            The US military is also called to do more than other nations and is spread across the world more than other nations too. In other words, expecting the US military to spend the same or even 25% less would mean a drastic reduction from the current operations tempo. You can only do so much with less and considering the current ops tempo and aging equipment that is in desperate need of replacement, something’s gotta give.

                            To answer your question about what you’re getting is a replacement for the 1950’s era KC-135 with the KC-46. Replacements for our Cold War era F-16 for the F-35. And a replacement for those Cold War Nimitz class carriers. Those replacements don’t come cheap.
                            Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 11-21-2017, 09:39 PM.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              Yes - recall that I noted there was a "bump" in staffing and funding around 911, and it returned to the pre 911 levels by the end of his term. If you look at the stats, the staffing is essentially unchanged from the mid 90s through 2016, except for that bump.
                              Not really a "bump." Clinton also slashed the military. Bush built it back up only for Obama to decimate it again.

                              Those are the only "government jobs" they are interested in cutting.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Not really a "bump." Clinton also slashed the military. Bush built it back up only for Obama to decimate it again.

                                Those are the only "government jobs" they are interested in cutting.
                                Check the statistics, Rogue - they do not align with your perception. Clinton did indeed cut the military significantly in the first half of the 90s with the end of the cold war. Bush increased it slightly (about 100K) right after 911, but it drops back down to the pree-911 levels by 2006, while Bush is still in office. We see a simliar climb/fall centered on 2010, as Obama geared up in the middle east and then began the withdrawal. Again, both the climb and reduction happened under the same president, this time Obama. Except these two bumps, both of which started and ended under the same president, military staffing has been essentially flat for the last 20 years.

                                What has significantly increased is the use of non-military "consultants." I think we used to call them mercenaries. Under Obama, use of such troops soared from a 1:1 (1 mercenary for each troop) ratio to a 3:1 ratio (3 mercenaries for each troop) (https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-obama/495731/). These ranks are not reflected in the military numbers, but account for a sizeable part of our overseas force today. Military contractors has become a multi-billion dollar enterprise, so the total number of troops (regulars and contractors) has actually grown in the past 9 years - not dropped. And the contractors are considered private sector jobs.

                                There is a LOT of misinformation out there....
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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