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Trump is already the most successful U.S. president since Ronald Reagan

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  • #16
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    2? 3? I recall several years in a row where no budget was even brought up for debate.
    Yeah, I'm not sure - but something like that. I saw something about "first budget in 6 years", but trying to find the detail.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Since I'm accused of being a Trump Supporter, I thought I'd toss some red meat into the arena.

      Trump is already the most successful U.S. president since Ronald Reagan
      Wow. Not my perspective. There has been no major legislative achievement. Trump has claimed (and is sometimes given) credit for things he had little or nothing to do with (e.g., the stock market, economic growth, etc.). As for jobs, the BLAS cites these numbers:

      February - 232
      March - 50
      April - 207
      May - 145
      June - 210
      July - 138
      August - 208
      September - 18 (Preliminary)
      October - 261 (Preliminary)

      My math makes that 163/month, and 1.469 million collectively. The economy needs 150K new jobs per month (according to the BLAS) to stay healthy, so on that front, Trump is good. But his rate of job growth is below the average for Obama's second term (213/Month). And that is by generously giving Trump the February numbers. Even if we drop out the preliminary numbers for Sep/Oct, Trump's growth is 170K jobs per month. Good - but not spectacular. Job growth has actually slowed under Trump.

      Illegal immigration has actually slowed under Trump - which I applaud. I applaud his stance on truly criminal immigrants, I do not applaud some of the tactics used to achieve this (e.g. position on DACA) and his constant use of hyperbole and factually incorrect information to foster an anti-immigrant sentiment.

      These issues, couple with his abysmal record on international engagement, not to mention just plain human maturity, lead me to believe Trump will go down as the worst (or nearly the worst) president in American history.

      That being said - he could turn things around in the next 3 years. Somehow I doubt he actually will - and I am sincerely hoping he doesn't. The message to our young people of Trump winning this election is as bad as the message to these people of Clinton staying in office after his inappropriate behavior came to light. Both were reprehensible. It is hard for me to imagine people of conscience defending either man.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Wow. Not my perspective.
        I'm shocked.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          It is hard for me to imagine people of conscience defending either man.
          Personally, I'm anxious for President Pence. The only reason I post this stuff about Trump is because it drives the liberals crazy, and they're fun to watch.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Personally, I'm anxious for President Pence. The only reason I post this stuff about Trump is because it drives the liberals crazy, and they're fun to watch.
            I had to laugh at that one. You DO know that is the very definition of "trolling," don't you?

            Seriously - the thing that most keeps me up at night (politically speaking - physically speaking it would be a full bladder) is that the left will succeed in impeaching Trump (which I think the right should be seriously considering), putting Pence in office. Pence has a FAR better chance of winning in 2020 than Trump, and there is no way the left side of SCOTUS will say in place for another 7 years - one of them will resign or die in the next 7 years, shifting the court significantly to the right for the next several decades.

            From my perspective, the court is currently balanced at 4-1-4. Gorsuch's appointment kept that balance. Much as I think the mechanism used by McConnell and the right to deny the left their candidate to the court will someday come back to bite them, I have to acknowledge that it preserved the balance on the court. Gorsuch was a fair trade for Scalia. But another Gorsuch in place of Ginsburg would skew the court to the right. SCOTUS is currently the only balanced branch of government we have. I would regret that shift - and I think we would regret it as a nation.

            In my opinion, the court would be best served by the simultaneous retirement of Ginsburg and Thomas, and the appointment of two moderates. That would make the court 3-3-3 (liberal, moderate, conservative), giving the court a good balance. But I doubt that will occur. If Trump is in office, he would nominate two conservatives, skewing the court. If a Democrat were in office, they would likely nominate two liberals - again skewing the court.

            Politics are a bitch...
            Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-20-2017, 03:25 PM.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I'm shocked.
              There are good drugs for that...
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                There has been no major legislative achievement.
                Surely that's a denouncement of Congress and not the President, seeing how they're the legislative branch.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  Surely that's a denouncement of Congress and not the President, seeing how they're the legislative branch.
                  Legislative achievements are typically a function of both branches of government. The president has to sign legislative achievements into law, which typically has them working closely with Congress towards a common end. It behooves Congress nothing to pass a bill the Executive branch will veto unless they know they have the super majority required to override the veto.

                  But the bipartisan nature of Congress has broken down in the last two decades, and the ability of the Executive branch to work with the Legislative branch has gone with it, since the Executive is a partisan branch and the Legislative is a bipartisan branch by definition.

                  Furthermore, the "my way or the highway" position of modern politicians has undermined the entire system. We see this int eh Republican "we will oppose everything Obama proposes" stance, the current Democrat "we will oppose everything the Republicans propose" stance, Trump's "everything 'Obama' must go policy, and the current refusal of Republicans to engage the opposing party to debate discuss pretty much anything. IMO, we the people have elected exactly what we deserve. Until we are willing to elect people who WILL reach across the aisle and compromise, we will have what we have now: dysfunction.

                  But that requires the electorate to see "compromise" as something other than a dirty word.
                  Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-20-2017, 03:50 PM.
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    But the bipartisan nature of Congress has broken down in the last two decades, and the ability of the Executive branch to work with the Legislative branch has gone with it...
                    Which supports my point that you can't blame a lack of legislative achievements on the President, especially when there are Congressional members in both parties who are actively opposing him.

                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    But that requires the electorate to see "compromise" as something other than a dirty word.
                    It depends on what principles we are being asked to compromise.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      There are good drugs for that...
                      Even at my ripe old age, the only drugs I'm on is a baby aspirin every morning.

                      Besides, I don't need no stinkin drugs - if I wanna see colors and feel the room spin, all I need to do is stand up fast.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I had to laugh at that one. You DO know that is the very definition of "trolling," don't you?
                        At times, perhaps.

                        Seriously - the thing that most keeps me up at night (politically speaking - physically speaking it would be a full bladder) is that the left will succeed in impeaching Trump (which I think the right should be seriously considering), putting Pence in office. Pence has a FAR better chance of winning in 2020 than Trump, and there is no way the left side of SCOTUS will say in place for another 7 years - one of them will resign or die in the next 7 years, shifting the court significantly to the right for the next several decades.
                        One can only hope!

                        From my perspective, the court is currently balanced at 4-1-4. Gorsuch's appointment kept that balance. Much as I think the mechanism used by McConnell and the right to deny the left their candidate to the court will someday come back to bite them, I have to acknowledge that it preserved the balance on the court. Gorsuch was a fair trade for Scalia. But another Gorsuch in place of Ginsburg would skew the court to the right. SCOTUS is currently the only balanced branch of government we have. I would regret that shift - and I think we would regret it as a nation.

                        In my opinion, the court would be best served by the simultaneous retirement of Ginsburg and Thomas, and the appointment of two moderates. That would make the court 3-3-3 (liberal, moderate, conservative), giving the court a good balance. But I doubt that will occur. If Trump is in office, he would nominate two conservatives, skewing the court. If a Democrat were in office, they would likely nominate two liberals - again skewing the court.

                        Politics are a bitch...
                        Woudln't that be "is"? (Depending, of course, on what the meaning of the word "is" is)
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Even at my ripe old age, the only drugs I'm on is a baby aspirin every morning.

                          Besides, I don't need no stinkin drugs - if I wanna see colors and feel the room spin, all I need to do is stand up fast.
                          Where the heck is the emogi.

                          I need more than a fast change in vertical orientation. At the very least, I need a good BM
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            At times, perhaps.

                            One can only hope!

                            Woudln't that be "is"? (Depending, of course, on what the meaning of the word "is" is)
                            Actually, since politics is plural, “are” is correct. But “are” is incorrect if “is” is used in a context where “are” is synonymous with “is” and we are all caught up in our is-ness.

                            I think I just pulled a muscle in my right frontal cortex...
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              Actually, since politics is plural, “are” is correct. But “are” is incorrect if “is” is used in a context where “are” is synonymous with “is” and we are all caught up in our is-ness.

                              I think I just pulled a muscle in my right frontal cortex...
                              "politics" as a topic is.....


                              yeah, nevermind.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                Even at my ripe old age, the only drugs I'm on is a baby aspirin every morning.

                                Besides, I don't need no stinkin drugs - if I wanna see colors and feel the room spin, all I need to do is stand up fast.
                                You found a cure to your color blindness?

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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