Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Trump is already the most successful U.S. president since Ronald Reagan
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostActually - the stats say government jobs shrank by 341,000 under Obama. Private sector jobs grew.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYes... that was my point. U3 considers someone who works a few hours a week to be "employed".Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-21-2017, 02:07 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWhen you slash the military to the bone you tend to get rid of a lot of government jobs.
I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-21-2017, 02:11 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmm... these stats seem to suggest otherwise (https://historyinpieces.com/research...nnel-1954-2014). U.S. military staffing has been essentially flat since the mid 1990s, with a mild "bump" around 911. Funding has also been flat as a percentage of GDP over that period - which means funding has increased as GDP has increased (except for the blip of the Great Recession - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending). It is better funded (as a percentage of GDP) than most armies in the world. Given our status as the country with the highest GDP, that is saying a lot. It is also one of the few government agencies that has been largely without an audit for decades.
I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat's two Umms in a row - one more, and you're out!
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIIRC Obama even acknowledged that the number of military personnel dropped by 100,000 during his term in office.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI suggest an "er" or "uh"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmmm.... noThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe "m count" in the Umms has escalated! Soon, there will be all out war, and mankind will perish from the face of the earth.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo tempting...
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmm... these stats seem to suggest otherwise (https://historyinpieces.com/research...nnel-1954-2014). U.S. military staffing has been essentially flat since the mid 1990s, with a mild "bump" around 911. Funding has also been flat as a percentage of GDP over that period - which means funding has increased as GDP has increased (except for the blip of the Great Recession - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/defense_spending). It is better funded (as a percentage of GDP) than most armies in the world. Given our status as the country with the highest GDP, that is saying a lot. It is also one of the few government agencies that has been largely without an audit for decades.
I am for a strong military, and I want to see our forces supported both before and after they complete their service. But I do not consider it unpatriotic to simultaneously say, "the military needs to be held to fiscal account." I want to know why we have to support our military at a rate 50% above the international average, and what we are getting for that money. I have no problem giving the military what it needs to succeed, but I no more want the military to waste my tax dollars than I want the IRS, EPA, Executive branch, Congress, or any other part of government to waste my tax dollars. Right now, the math does not add up. Before the military gets more funding, I believe the military should demonstrate that they are making maximal use of the funding they already have. That would require an end-to-end audit. I see no reason for the military to be exempt from this requirement.Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 11-21-2017, 09:39 PM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - recall that I noted there was a "bump" in staffing and funding around 911, and it returned to the pre 911 levels by the end of his term. If you look at the stats, the staffing is essentially unchanged from the mid 90s through 2016, except for that bump.
Those are the only "government jobs" they are interested in cutting.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostNot really a "bump." Clinton also slashed the military. Bush built it back up only for Obama to decimate it again.
Those are the only "government jobs" they are interested in cutting.
What has significantly increased is the use of non-military "consultants." I think we used to call them mercenaries. Under Obama, use of such troops soared from a 1:1 (1 mercenary for each troop) ratio to a 3:1 ratio (3 mercenaries for each troop) (https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-obama/495731/). These ranks are not reflected in the military numbers, but account for a sizeable part of our overseas force today. Military contractors has become a multi-billion dollar enterprise, so the total number of troops (regulars and contractors) has actually grown in the past 9 years - not dropped. And the contractors are considered private sector jobs.
There is a LOT of misinformation out there....The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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