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Analyses of Jesus' Wife Fragment Finally Published

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  • Analyses of Jesus' Wife Fragment Finally Published

    Forgery View Also Published, King Still Defends Authenticity

    While Coptic is an important language for New Testament text criticism, it isn't really a biblical language and the fragment is not from a biblical text so I was not sure where to post this. Personally, 'though I do not think he was, I would have no problem with Jesus being married, but some (most?) would consider this unorthodox so here goes ...

    People who know Coptic much better than me have been almost unanimous in their judgment that this is a forgery. I wonder how well and how long King will defend its authenticity? Probably for the rest of her career.

    Which is more important, I mean if I had the time to read up on this or the four blood moons, which should I choose. At least this stuff will have interesting scientific and text historico-critical methodology.
    Last edited by robrecht; 04-10-2014, 07:09 AM.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

  • #2
    Interesting. I guess I wouldn't have a problem if it were discovered that Jesus was married -- but it would concern me that none of the Gospel writers ever mentioned it, and I would really wonder why that was.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #3
      Even if it is genuine, there is not enough context to know what is being said. It could be part of a parable, or an analogy. Jesus and the bible speaks of the church as his Bride for instance.

      Comment


      • #4
        Both good points. I agree. And the late date that is proposed (if one believes its authenticity) would not carry any historical weight. Even King sees it merely as potential evidence for beliefs or expression of later theology on the part of some who may or may not have considered this to be 'historical' in any modern sense of the word.

        Sparko, would you consider this to be a matter of orthodoxy?
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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        • #5
          Originally posted by robrecht View Post
          Both good points. I agree. And the late date that is proposed (if one believes its authenticity) would not carry any historical weight. Even King sees it merely as potential evidence for beliefs or expression of later theology on the part of some who may or may not have considered this to be 'historical' in any modern sense of the word.

          Sparko, would you consider this to be a matter of orthodoxy?
          No. I don't see any real reason why Jesus could not have been married, other than causing the obvious problems, like leaving a widow behind, or children.

          Comment


          • #6
            There is a problem with Jesus having been married. He makes no provision for a wife where He does make provision for His mother. That makes zero sense - He had brothers to care for His mother yet He sends her into John's care but a soon-to-be widow He doesn't do anything about?

            It also brings up the issue of little baby Jesus' wandering around. Jesus clearly did not intend to create an Earthly dynasty at the time (the NC being a different issue) so having a wife would leave that as an ever open question - no wife, no issue.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              There is a problem with Jesus having been married. He makes no provision for a wife where He does make provision for His mother. That makes zero sense - He had brothers to care for His mother yet He sends her into John's care but a soon-to-be widow He doesn't do anything about?

              It also brings up the issue of little baby Jesus' wandering around. Jesus clearly did not intend to create an Earthly dynasty at the time (the NC being a different issue) so having a wife would leave that as an ever open question - no wife, no issue.
              er that's pretty much what I said.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                er that's pretty much what I said.
                I said it better.
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  I said it better.
                  so?

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                  • #10
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      Forgery View Also Published, King Still Defends Authenticity

                      While Coptic is an important language for New Testament text criticism, it isn't really a biblical language and the fragment is not from a biblical text so I was not sure where to post this. Personally, 'though I do not think he was, I would have no problem with Jesus being married, but some (most?) would consider this unorthodox so here goes ...

                      People who know Coptic much better than me have been almost unanimous in their judgment that this is a forgery. I wonder how well and how long King will defend its authenticity? Probably for the rest of her career.

                      Which is more important, I mean if I had the time to read up on this or the four blood moons, which should I choose. At least this stuff will have interesting scientific and text historico-critical methodology.
                      I've been following this for a couple years. Here is a neat analysis of the evidence for the forgery of the fragment.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Interesting. I guess I wouldn't have a problem if it were discovered that Jesus was married -- but it would concern me that none of the Gospel writers ever mentioned it, and I would really wonder why that was.
                        It wouldn't concern me any more than the question of who was Cain's wife and where did she come from. It was considered irrelevant to the central message and hence not included.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          There is a problem with Jesus having been married. He makes no provision for a wife where He does make provision for His mother. That makes zero sense - He had brothers to care for His mother yet He sends her into John's care but a soon-to-be widow He doesn't do anything about?

                          It also brings up the issue of little baby Jesus' wandering around. Jesus clearly did not intend to create an Earthly dynasty at the time (the NC being a different issue) so having a wife would leave that as an ever open question - no wife, no issue.
                          It is always possible that Jesus could have been a widower.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            It is always possible that Jesus could have been a widower.
                            True, but that would leave open the second question - were there any kiddies?
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              True, but that would leave open the second question - were there any kiddies?
                              I don't see how marriage necessitates children at all.
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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