Page 1 of 13 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 125

Thread: The Apologetics of Confrontation and Anger

  1. #1
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,008
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    838

    The Apologetics of Confrontation and Anger

    I am curious about a dynamic I see all around me, here as well in the U.S. and the world at large. There is a flavor of anger and confrontation to the apologetics I see both here and elsewhere. I recognize that many atheists likewise have a confrontational approach to dealing with theists, and I wish I could apologize on behalf of all of them. There are times I think most atheists are just angry ex-theists that have not completely let go of their original worldview.

    But if the goal of apologetics is to explain the faith, and convey the message of Christ risen, does a confrontational and angry apologetic EVER successfully convey the spirit of Christ? The stories of Jesus convey the impression of a man who was masterful at countering skeptics without ripping into them. Only once, that I recall, did Jesus ever "lose it," and that was when he encountered the hordes disrespecting the sacred place he saw as "my father's house." Beyond that, he apparently responded evenly and creatively to the most obnoxious of challenges, creating an atmosphere of invitation to his teaching, rather than a knee-jerk reaction against it. Even when he was to be arrested to be ultimately taken to his death, the stories convey the image of a gentle-man, even healing the ear of one of his oppressors.

    Yet nowhere is there an impression that Jesus of Nazareth was a wimp. He conveys the sense of strength, self-assuredness in his faith, and concern for those who he believed would ultimately benefit from his message. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," is a powerful, masterful strategy for dealing with the situation. "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to god what is god's," is similarly powerful and masterful.

    Doesn't all the rage and confrontation achieve the exact opposite of what you want to achieve?

    I want to be clear that I do not see this from ALL people here, or even ALL the time. But it is certainly here, and with remarkable regularity.

    Thoughts...?

  2. Amen shunyadragon, The Remonstrant amen'd this post.
  3. #2
    tWebber TheWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,192
    Amen (Given)
    1366
    Amen (Received)
    1522
    Hmm.
    C.S Lewis
    Chesterton.
    Augustine.
    Kierkegaard.
    Lee Strobel.
    J Warner Wallace.
    I would say all of them are able to spark some serious questions. The truth is though that challenging ones worldview can be painful as a worldview is part of the identity we make for ourselves.

    I hope that helps.

  4. #3
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,008
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
    Hmm.
    C.S Lewis
    Chesterton.
    Augustine.
    Kierkegaard.
    Lee Strobel.
    J Warner Wallace.
    I would say all of them are able to spark some serious questions. The truth is though that challenging ones worldview can be painful as a worldview is part of the identity we make for ourselves.

    I hope that helps.
    I'm not speaking of the "pain" that comes from having a worldview challenged (though I have to admit I don't really find that process particularly painful - I welcome it actually). I am speaking about the angry, attacking, confrontational nature of many of the posts I find here, many of the public pronouncements by church leaders. Perhaps I used the term "apologetics" too widely. I'm thinking of the angry, mocking, posts I see that abound here. More publicly I'm talking about the language of "godless, baby killing, liberals" and "atheist scum" and the list goes on.

    During one of the presidential debates, I watched it in a streaming format and had the comments turned on. The stream of abuse and vulgarities I saw from BOTH sides was mind-numbing and depressing. But what REALLY caught my eye was the ones that had a religious theme to them. "God will crush your baby killing souls, you &^%& liberal swine" and so forth. Then I engage in discussions here, and follow the threads, and I see similar energy (fortunately, the mods don't tolerate the vulgarity, so that is left out).

    I am all for spirited debate. But do the personal attacks EVER achieve anything? The people you listed were strong apologists for the Christian faith. I don't recall ever reading anything by any of them that I would describe as "vitriolic." Today, however, it appears to me to be common fare...

  5. Amen The Remonstrant amen'd this post.
  6. #4
    tWebber TheWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,192
    Amen (Given)
    1366
    Amen (Received)
    1522
    I certainly do not think that ad hominem helps anybody.

  7. Amen carpedm9587 amen'd this post.
  8. #5
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,008
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    838
    How do you "amen" someone

    And you and I may be participating in the shortest thread in TWeb history

  9. #6
    tWebber TheWall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,192
    Amen (Given)
    1366
    Amen (Received)
    1522
    There is a button on the bottom of pist that says amen.

  10. #7
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,747
    Amen (Given)
    492
    Amen (Received)
    1287
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWall View Post
    I certainly do not think that ad hominem helps anybody.
    Ad hominem ≠ insult ≠ vulgarity ≠ disparagement.
    Mountain Man: A skin cell is a skin cell. It doesn't grow, it doesn't organize, it doesn't adapt, it doesn't self-sustain, it doesn't metabolize, it doesn't respond to stimuli.

  11. #8
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,625
    Amen (Given)
    114
    Amen (Received)
    409
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    There is a flavor of anger and confrontation
    Confrontation is duty! Submit, godless one!!!

    We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  12. #9
    tWebber demi-conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,625
    Amen (Given)
    114
    Amen (Received)
    409
    Let's tear apart BS here:

    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    But if the goal of apologetics is to explain the faith, and convey the message of Christ risen, does a confrontational and angry apologetic EVER successfully convey the spirit of Christ? The stories of Jesus convey the impression of a man who was masterful at countering skeptics without ripping into them.... "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to god what is god's," is similarly powerful and masterful.


    But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

    “Caesar’s,” they replied.

    Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”


    Powerful, masterful response can go with confrontation, calling opponents 'hypocrites'.
    Trump is basically "Bruce Wayne pretending to be a foppish retarded billionaire" tier genius, in case nerds need a simpler metaphor.

  13. Amen Mountain Man amen'd this post.
  14. #10
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,008
    Amen (Given)
    23
    Amen (Received)
    838
    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Ad hominem ≠ insult ≠ vulgarity ≠ disparagement.
    An ad hominem is not equal to an insult or a disparagement? I agree it is not always vulgar - but how is it not the other two. Can to provide an example of an ad hominem that is not an insult or a disparagement?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •