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Thread: The Apologetics of Confrontation and Anger

  1. #121
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Speaking of the ad hominem fallacy...

    It would seem that even you are not above publicly shaming those you disagree with even as you decry the practice.
    Your making a good point - and I misspoke. If JP were here, I would apologize directly to him. I find his actions/words reprehensible. I have no business passing judgment on his entire person on the basis of a few characteristics. But I certainly have no intention of wasting my time reading a defense of actions I find reprehensible - not to mention I htink I read it years ago anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Or if you're like me, you will use whichever approach is most appropriate for the situation.
    There is nothing wrong with pointing out actions that are inappropriate. If someone strikes another, that is inappropriate. If someone belittles and demeans another, that is inappropriate. To resort to the same type of demeaning/insulting language that others are using simply lowers me to their level - and I have no desire to go there or be that kind of person.

    As my previous post suggests, however, I am far from perfect at it.

  2. #122
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Your making a good point - and I misspoke. If JP were here, I would apologize directly to him. I find his actions/words reprehensible. I have no business passing judgment on his entire person on the basis of a few characteristics. But I certainly have no intention of wasting my time reading a defense of actions I find reprehensible - not to mention I htink I read it years ago anyway.



    There is nothing wrong with pointing out actions that are inappropriate. If someone strikes another, that is inappropriate. If someone belittles and demeans another, that is inappropriate. To resort to the same type of demeaning/insulting language that others are using simply lowers me to their level - and I have no desire to go there or be that kind of person.

    As my previous post suggests, however, I am far from perfect at it.
    I think modern Westerners understand the honor/shame dynamic much better than they realize. If it was really as widely offensive and ineffective as some believe then no politician would ever get ahead by publicly shaming his opponent, yet it's a winning strategy in election after election with no end in sight.

    At any rate, this is going to be a hard debate for you, because your ultimate goal is to hypocritically shame those of us you disagree with into changing our behavior -- whether your insults are overt or passive aggressive makes no difference -- and the cognitive dissonance inherent in that position is hard to overcome. Either it's acceptable to shame people into changing their behavior, or it's not. You can't have it both ways.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. #123
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I think modern Westerners understand the honor/shame dynamic much better than they realize. If it was really as widely offensive and ineffective as some believe then no politician would ever get ahead by publicly shaming his opponent, yet it's a winning strategy in election after election with no end in sight.
    I never argued it wasn't "effective," MM. Killing anyone who steals anything would probably also be effective at stopping theft. Killing anyone with a defective gene would also be effective at eliminating genetic disorders. I don't applaud those either. The "effectiveness" of a strategy is not measure for it's goodness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    At any rate, this is going to be a hard debate for you, because your ultimate goal is to hypocritically shame those of us you disagree with into changing our behavior -- whether your insults are overt or passive aggressive makes no difference -- and the cognitive dissonance inherent in that position is hard to overcome. Either it's acceptable to shame people into changing their behavior, or it's not. You can't have it both ways.
    I have no such goal whatsoever, nor did I articulate such a goal, AFAICR. I asked to understand what the philosophy behind it was, and I have received an answer. Folks are free to (and will) pursue whatever approach they see fit to use. I don't plan to adopt it because I don't find it justified - but that places no constraints on what anyone else will or will not do. I find it somewhat at odds with the "Christian message," but folks have been clear about the parts of the bible they use to guide their actions that justify it, so I have my explanation.

  4. #124
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The "effectiveness" of a strategy is not measure for it's goodness.
    True, but then one might ask for your standard of "goodness", and then things will really start to spin out of control.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #125
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    True, but then one might ask for your standard of "goodness", and then things will really start to spin out of control.
    You're welcome to ask.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 12-18-2017 at 05:24 PM.

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