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Thread: Need advice from Christians well-versed in both philosophy and theology!

  1. #21
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaney777 View Post
    I tend to believe that he was a real person in history, yes. Maybe where the doubt comes in is with the most important part: his resurrection. If there is no resurrection, he was merely a wise teacher. How is the debate situation on the historicity of His resurrection?
    Although it is debated, the arguments against the Resurrection are weak - usually based in a priori assumptions or really selective readings of history.

    Eleven persons in history, other than Christ Himself, unquestionably knew whether or not He had returned from the dead. Of them, ten were martyred and the eleventh tortured and exiled - it defies credence to believe that even one sane person would die rather than recant something they knew to be a lie - yet none did recant and what is known of their history is simply not consistent with madmen. The author of 1st Peter (which is undisputed as Peter) is a rational person - the writing is perfectly consistent with that. So at least one can be shown to have definitely been rational even after having undergone severe physical punishment as a direct result of his preaching about Jesus. Two if you count Paul.

    That's just one of the multiple arguments for the Resurrection.

  2. #22
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaney777 View Post
    I grew up in a Christian home, so the Christian hell is more "real" to me than the hells of other religions.

    Where can I find Teallaura's arguments? I assume they are involved with hauntings?
    He meant my earlier post, I'm pretty sure.

  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Belief is ultimately a choice. You examine evidence for some claim, do some research, decide if the sources are reliable or not and then you choose to believe. Like man made global warming for instance. There are people on both sides of the issue. It is up to you to decide which ones to believe. Is mankind actually changing the climate, or could it just be a natural cycle of warming, just like the ice ages were global cooling. There is evidence for both views, but you need to examine that evidence yourself, become informed and then decide what you want to believe. There is no absolute indisputable proof.

    Same with Christianity. It is a religion based on evidence. There are historical accounts and claims. The bible itself is not one book but 66 of them compiled by various authors over thousands of years who did not know each other. So does one author predict or prophesy something that came true and is written about by another author hundreds or thousands of years later? Do the authors have any reason to lie? Are their claims made by people outside of the bible that corroborate the bible? Are there any archeological evidences that back up what is written in the bible?

    So do some research, then you have to make a decision. Just like any other belief you have.
    I can't escape the belief that I've made an error in reasoning somewhere. Or maybe I've missed sources and haven't investigated all there is. There's simply too much relying on me being right about this. This decision is important beyond comprehension, I think... I'm just so overwhelmed with the sheer amount of information on it all. It's like... I need to be INCREDIBLY convinced to become a Christian since it requires such a sacrifice. You basically can't do a lot of things that you want anymore... It's a whole new, radical life of servanthood. It's the furthest thing from easy, and I am the laziest person ever.

  4. #24
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    You can't have sex with anything anywhere anytime unless you are married to her. You can't go around deceiving people. You can't kill innocent people. You can't drool over your friend's stuff. You can't cuss out your parents. You can't treat God disrespectfully. You can't refuse to forgive.

    Why were you wanting to do those things in the first place?

    Basically, you treat people like they are valuable to God - because they are - and because of that, valuable to you. The cans outnumber the can'ts massively.

  5. #25
    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaney777
    You basically can't do a lot of things that you want anymore...
    John 10:10
    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    1 Peter 3:10-12
    For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
    Last edited by Sparko; 11-30-2017 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaney777 View Post
    I can't escape the belief that I've made an error in reasoning somewhere. Or maybe I've missed sources and haven't investigated all there is. There's simply too much relying on me being right about this. This decision is important beyond comprehension, I think... I'm just so overwhelmed with the sheer amount of information on it all. It's like... I need to be INCREDIBLY convinced to become a Christian since it requires such a sacrifice. You basically can't do a lot of things that you want anymore... It's a whole new, radical life of servanthood. It's the furthest thing from easy, and I am the laziest person ever.
    uh no. Becoming a Christian sets you free. It is not hard at all. You will feel like a weight has been lifted off of you. God forgives you for all of your sins and the dumb things you regret doing and will never ever condemn you for them. It's all forgotten.

    "serving" God is not chore. Have you ever loved someone and wanted to please them and do things right because they deserve it and it makes you feel good to do the right thing for them? It's like that. You don't want to do all those old things any more.
    Last edited by Sparko; 11-30-2017 at 12:11 PM.

  7. #27
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaney777 View Post
    What happened at your old house? If you don't feel comfortable answering, I understand.

    And wow, that seems like a respected book. I'll check it out!
    I was pretty young at the time, but I can never forget what happened to me. I heard the doorbell and went to answer it. I opened the door to what on first glance looked like a child in a raincoat, and large rubber rain boots*. My mind started noticing some problems. Problem #1, It wasn't raining, and had been extremely sunny all day long. Problem 2#, red eyes long before colored contacts were easily obtained. Problem #3, intense sense of dread I started to have, and a feeling that can only be described as hatred emanating from this individual.
    Noticing these things I immediately slammed the door, and ran to another room. Only to find it had beaten me to the other room. It's not like it just ran ahead of my either, I would have seen that happening. The only other way into the room was blocked by a very large, and very heavy sliding wood door. It didn't even looked like it had moved, but just popped into place. So I ran again. This time back to the front door. Which was of course, still closed. I turned around and looked behind me with my back to the door, and it was at the end of the hall. Just under the stairway which wrapped around the room on its way up to the second floor.
    I was terrified, and felt trapped since it could just go anywhere with no effort. So I just stood there while it took each of it's exceedingly slow steps towards me. I felt something touch my shoulder, and I looked up. It was my dad. I looked back to where it had been, but there was nothing.

    I didn't know about the stuff they had experienced, so I didn't tell him about what I saw at the time. I thought he would think I was crazy. At the time I thought they were making me get rid of my Ghostbusters toys because they thought the very idea of ghosts, or something similar was crazy, and they didn't want me to start thinking it could be real. What they were actually trying to do was get rid of anything they thought might be "inviting"** it in. They had had their own experiences. I don't remember all of the details of their experiences, but I remember a few things I've been told. My mom talked about basically being paralyzed, but never actually seeing anything. As soon as she said the name Jesus, she could move again. She also once thought my dad had come home when she felt someone get on the bed, but looked over to see no one there. There were also extremely loud sounds, like very large glass objects breaking. However when the rooms where it happened were inspected there was nothing that had fallen or broken at all.

    *Much later while we lived there, I woke up in the middle of the night to hear someone walking up the stairs in our house. Sounded like they were wearing large rubber boots. The stairs were hard wood, so they made more distinct sounds depending on what was worn when walking on them.

    I didn't want to go and check for myself, so I woke up my parents. They didn't really listen, and just said it was probably the house creaking. I didn't connect this incident with what happened before until later. Still gives me the chills.

    **This was the advice given to them by our pastor at the time. Doesn't look like it worked since there were still strange things happening up until we left. My mom said it seemed like something didn't want us to leave, since strange things kept happening that kept us from getting to move. For a while at least. Eventually we got it all sorted out, but it wasn't easy according to them.

  8. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
  9. #28
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Although it is debated, the arguments against the Resurrection are weak - usually based in a priori assumptions or really selective readings of history.

    Eleven persons in history, other than Christ Himself, unquestionably knew whether or not He had returned from the dead. Of them, ten were martyred and the eleventh tortured and exiled - it defies credence to believe that even one sane person would die rather than recant something they knew to be a lie - yet none did recant and what is known of their history is simply not consistent with madmen. The author of 1st Peter (which is undisputed as Peter) is a rational person - the writing is perfectly consistent with that. So at least one can be shown to have definitely been rational even after having undergone severe physical punishment as a direct result of his preaching about Jesus. Two if you count Paul.

    That's just one of the multiple arguments for the Resurrection.
    It IS a really good argument. I had the thought that maybe instead of trying to focus on so many factors at once, I should just study the historicity of the resurrection. It would get straight to the point and bypass a LOT of lesser things I could research. Does anyone here respect Bart Ehrman for matters such as these? He sure has the prestige and education needed, but I know he is super hostile to Christianity in terms of history.

  10. #29
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    You can't have sex with anything anywhere anytime unless you are married to her. You can't go around deceiving people. You can't kill innocent people. You can't drool over your friend's stuff. You can't cuss out your parents. You can't treat God disrespectfully. You can't refuse to forgive.

    Why were you wanting to do those things in the first place?

    Basically, you treat people like they are valuable to God - because they are - and because of that, valuable to you. The cans outnumber the can'ts massively.
    Oh my goodness, I didn't know that was your username. I apologize. I don't really focus on usernames when I read a comment.

    Yes, but those are more extreme sins, aren't they? I'd personally have a huge problem if I couldn't merely "look" at girls. I like to admire their beauty, and I am a hardcore romantic, so... I'd be banned from that! And the extreme ordeal is those sins of omission: it's sin if we don't do what we know we ought to, and that would seem to keep me in a frantic frenzy of continual "work."

  11. #30
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsidian View Post
    John 10:10
    The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    1 Peter 3:10-12
    For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
    His ears are open to their prayers... This is sort of where I felt that there'd be no use for an unbeliever to pray to God.

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