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Thread: A temporal gift.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    A temporal gift.

    A temporal gift can be lost. Those who hold that one who is saved can yet become lost effectively hold that salvation is yet temporal gift for the Christian.

    ". . . the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him; . . ." -- Hebrews 5:9.

    That that salvation is only eternal so long as Christ is obeyed. So salvation is really temporal conditional upon that obedience.

    An understanding which relegates salvation to merit as opposed to grace making it temporal and not really a gift and not of grace.

    ". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." -- Ephesians 2:8.
    ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ." -- Romans 4:5.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  3. Amen The Remonstrant amen'd this post.
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    tWebber The Remonstrant's Avatar
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    Since I have returned (temporarily, at least), have you taken it upon yourself to bait me on the topic of conditional security once more, 37818?
    Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come,
    by which we know that it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18, NKJV)



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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 37818 View Post
    A temporal gift can be lost. Those who hold that one who is saved can yet become lost effectively hold that salvation is yet temporal gift for the Christian.

    ". . . the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him; . . ." -- Hebrews 5:9.

    That that salvation is only eternal so long as Christ is obeyed. So salvation is really temporal conditional upon that obedience.

    An understanding which relegates salvation to merit as opposed to grace making it temporal and not really a gift and not of grace.

    ". . . For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: . . ." -- Ephesians 2:8.
    ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ." -- Romans 4:5.
    all of which ignores the requirement for repentance - as indicated (but not stated) in Romans 4:7-8 - and the misdeeds that lead to death being relegated to past action - as indicated by Ephesians 2:1-3.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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    tWebber Obsidian's Avatar
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    The fact that Christians can earn rewards that will never be lost is supposed to be a key motivation behind living a godly life. If eternal life were not eternal, then this passage would make zero sense.

    Matthew 6:19-21
    Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Tabibito and Remonstrant are not teaching Christianity. They are teaching Moth-and-rustianity.

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    Dept. of Redundancy Dept. Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    all of which ignores the requirement for repentance - as indicated (but not stated) in Romans 4:7-8 - and the misdeeds that lead to death being relegated to past action - as indicated by Ephesians 2:1-3.
    It's always a great idea to build theology on things in the Bible that are "indicated" but not stated.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    all of which ignores the requirement for repentance - as indicated (but not stated) in Romans 4:7-8 - and the misdeeds that lead to death being relegated to past action - as indicated by Ephesians 2:1-3.
    Repentance was not the issue. For the record Biblical repentance precedes the faith (Mark 1:15). And is to be from trusting in works (Hebrews 6:1).

    And to Ephesians 2:1-3 we can add Ephesians 5:5, Galatians 5:19-21 and Revelation 21:8.
    Last edited by 37818; 12-05-2017 at 02:32 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Remonstrant View Post
    Since I have returned (temporarily, at least), have you taken it upon yourself to bait me on the topic of conditional security once more, 37818?
    It is nice to see you back, even if it is for a temporal visit. My reason for the thread is in its title. A temporal gift. If in Biblical salvation one who professes salvation can loose it between then and death - then that salvation is not yet eternal salvation. It is really that simple. The meaning of to "obey Him" to have eternal salvation is relevant.

    For the record, I am of the persuasion to "obey Him" involves doing His Fathers will (John 7:16; Matthew 7:21). That eternal salvation can only be had as an wholly unmerited gift.
    Last edited by 37818; 12-05-2017 at 02:24 PM.
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's always a great idea to build theology on things in the Bible that are "indicated" but not stated.
    So 'twould seem. Flatly stated (according to the gospels) by Jesus - "not all who call me lord will enter heaven, but those who do the will of my father."

    The "indications" that I referred to are in the same passages that are being mis-applied ... enough to make the interpretations by 37818 uncertain. And his interpretations are in conflict with explicit statements.

    Salvation is by grace - might indicate that it can't be lost. (if we go by indications) but the explicit statements throughout the NT regarding salvation are that maintenance is the responsibility of the recipient and cannot be achieved without the Holy Spirit's intervention.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

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    tWebber 37818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    So 'twould seem. Flatly stated (according to the gospels) by Jesus - "not all who call me lord will enter heaven, but those who do the will of my father."

    The "indications" that I referred to are in the same passages that are being mis-applied ... enough to make the interpretations by 37818 uncertain. And his interpretations are in conflict with explicit statements.

    Salvation is by grace - might indicate that it can't be lost. (if we go by indications) but the explicit statements throughout the NT regarding salvation are that maintenance is the responsibility of the recipient and cannot be achieved without the Holy Spirit's intervention.
    ". . . Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. . . .
    . . . Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." -- Matthew 7:15, . . . 21-23.

    They never where Christ's to begin with - trusting in their own merit. Not in God's grace.

    [1 John 5:12; Romans 8:9; 2 Corinthians 13:5; John 6:37, 44-45; Hebrews 13:5; 1 John 2:19]
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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